Y4 In year admissions for next week, advice/anecdotes please

[mysodapop]

Opinions please:

Waiting for an in-year admission place for next week for Y4. Applied to 2 nearest schools, first choice under the exceptional social/medical criteria (bereavement, kinship care, but no Looked After Child status as family took in). Can only apply under this to one school.

Child has not currently got a place for next week. Is number one on the waiting list for first choice and nearest school under exceptional social need criteria, number three for second choice school. Council are apparently waiting to hear from next nearest school (not very near, not very suitable) as to whether they could offer a place now.

Should I hold my nerve for next week? How likely is it do you think that she will get offered a place at first choice school, in year admissions, at number one on waiting list for a one form entry school?

Or second choice school, 2 form entry, number 3 on list?

What happens is she has no school next week? or I decline a last minute place that they might come up with at third nearest or some other random school? How long can I keep her at home after the term officially starts to wait to see if someone doesn't turn up at first choice school? How likely is this?

It is hard. Schools and attendance departments aren’t always told who has moved during the holidays.

It is hard like everything else now with all the bureaucracy. I remember moving house and starting my new school the very next day in 1978. Somehow they made a space because you moved into a house near the school. It worked. Now the Government tell parents about the importance of attendance but put obstacles in the way. No room for common sense.
No room to accommodate individuals.

Admissions teams are reliant on schools to tell them if they have places available. These numbers will be updated at the start of the new term. Local authorities admission teams often are employed term time only which then means catching up with all applications that have come in over the 6 week period. When Margaret Thatcher decided in her wisdom that parents should be allowed to state a preference (note this is not a choice it's a preference) she created a system where one school becomes popular, others start to sink, then parents don't 'prefer' the sinking schools and the problem gets worse! Slightly off topic but I work in a fair access team, we currently have no school places available in one particular area meaning we are seeing applications taking longer. Schools can't simply go over PAN if there's no places.

Thanks all. Still nothing. Haven't heard anything from the council since they aknowledged early last week that they had mishandled the application and reclassified her as exceptional social criterion and that school I am appealing for is nearest school via walking distance. I am lodging an appeal now for school 1, where she is number 1 on WL (was 1 on distance, still on exceptional social but of course I cannot tell if anyone was previously admitted above her when it was on distance).

We will accept school 3 (not applied for) if it is offered, as it is horrible seeing her stagnate at home on her own while everyone is out at school making friends, but I want to get appeal underway today as well to highlight that they haven't offered any school place as yet. I do appreciate that the individuals involved are operating in a broken system and that schools don't have the resources they need. Equally, I do think they should be able to offer a local school place to any child moving into the area, never mind one with her context.

If she had been a LAC I think this would have been automatic. She is only not a LAC becasue she was never in care of the council because we went and got them the morning they found their mother dead and didn't let the police take them and hand them over to SS to be put in care for a few weeks until the council formally asked us to foster them. The original council social worker cheerfully told me we perhaps should have done that. Who would do that? Seems unfair she is being punished because of a loophole (although I also appreciate their are similar children without the wider family and they are conserving scant resorces)

Your best hints and tips for filling out the appeal form please. I was planning for my 'written statement' to be pretty much what I wrote in the SIF to answer 'why the school named is the only school that can meet your child's needs and the difficulties caused if your child had to attend another school' question. Is this appropriate?

You should be able to ask if anyone was admitted on distance after you'd applied, and all the relevant dates etc. as part of collecting information for the appeal

Good idea, I have asked them.

You should push for full details of the error made, in writing, as you may not need to go to appeal if that error cost her a place at school 1.
Unfortunately there simply aren't enough school places to go round , being a looked after child gives immediate access, for some reason kinship fostering isn't included in this criteria, possibly because when a child is a LAC then the local authority holds parental responsibility for that child, which includes completing the admissions process. I think you should call admissions and ask to speak to the manager, school holidays are over, the teams will be back at full strength and they will know what vacancies they have. At the very least they need to hold their hands up to the error and even consider putting her through to fair access as an 'exceptional' case even if they say they can't over turn the refusal at this point. It's another arrow in case the appeal is refused for some reason

@mysodapop It’s an absolute disgrace that you are a week into term and still without a school place and what you were told about putting them into care is appalling. You’ve done the right thing and are being punished for it. The system is broken and many of the people in it are incompetent. Sadly, children are paying the price.

Unfortunately,there are many children in the same position waiting for a school place, I'm sitting on a panel next week looking at 45 applications. That's just one part of one county.
I agree that kinship care children should have the same priority as LAC children but it's not part of the admissions code so until the DfE changes that there's nothing admissions teams can do. I really hope now that the local authority teams are back at full strength they can sort this out quickly, if they continue to delay then raise an official complaint as they are bound by a statutory time line

Thank you. What is the statutory timeline?

The admission teams have a guideline of 15 school days to offer a place (normally counted in school days to avoid problems with school holidays) Basically because under the admissions code if the school has a space at the time ot application it has to be offered, unless the application falls into the fair access protocol. If that's the case then the admissions authority must notify you of this and that the child is on relevant waiting lists so that you can put in your appeal . Ironically LAC children applications the guidance is 20 days

A question for @Lightuptheroom , if @mysodapop first applied on 1 July (as instructed) then presumably she is well over 15 school days now?

Yes, that's why I'm saying she needs to push thus with an admissions manager. Obviously if someone made an application on for example 18th July then that would be different. Check the date they receipted it as well.

I have receipt acknowledgement from 1st July. They didn't even notify me that neither of the 2 schools could offer and she was on the WL. I had to keep phoning the helpdesk who all thoughout July and August would only tell me 'your application is is being processed' and 'its the holidays, everyone is away'. Eventually on the 26th August someone from the helpdesk told me she was WL for the 2 schools I applied to. Nobody has ever formally responded to my application.

I then started emailing the 2 contacts in admissions I had already been emailing earlier in the year and they are the ones telling me schools are full we are trying to get a place at the third school and that's how I discovered the error in processing etc. Their titles are Admissions and Fair Access Officer and Senior Admissions Officer. They are polite and helpful and have expressed their condolences, which I appreciate, but still no school place, or update. I asked them the questions about who had been admitted before her under which criteria etc yesterday and they responded that no one has this admissions cycle.

Would complaining make any difference? Who to? Head of Admissions? A councillor? They are clearly doing what they can within the broken system they operate in and there clearly arent any Y4 places in the town I live in. Shouldnt I just press forward with the appeal?

What really disgusts my niece doesn't have any status like LAC after being abandoned by her father and then a few years later finding her mother dead because the one bit of luck she has had is an Aunt and Uncle that have jobs (one social worker advised me to give up work and claim UC) and didn't let them go into a group home when it first happened. I can't imagine how much worse it must get for some poor children.

disgusts me

I suspect they are hoping we will send her to a private primary school as there are a couple in the area but unfortunately there isn't the money for that for primary school.

You need to contact the admissions manager. They would be able to confirm that the error has been made and whether this is enough to not have to go to appeal.
It's always worth escalating as the manager has access to systems other staff don't.
You can still submit the appeal immediately there's no need to wait.
There's no mechanism within admissions for them to hope you send her to an independent school, they have to provide a place within a reasonable distance, if that's proving impossible then your case should be referred to Fair Access.
There's been unnecessary delay in your case and it's definitely worth raising with the admissions manager, your appeal can be submitted at the same time. My concern for you is that they are failing in their duty to provide a place and it's possible that if the school has a strong case not to admit then your appeal could fail and you're only able to appeal once for that school in each academic year

Positive update. They have today offered us a place at the other nearby primary school which I have accepted (school 3). It's not one of the ones I applied to but it is similar distance and she really needs to be in school so we are going to send her there as soon as we get a start date. She will remain on the WL for the other 2. Thanks all for your advice and support, it's really meant a lot at a very hard time. x

I'm glad to hear it. I think an appeal would still be worth it if you think School 1 (or even 2) would be better for her; it sounds like you've got some genuine reasons for wanting School 1, and there is still the possibility of the mistake being relevant (when they say no-one admitted 'this admission cycle', what timeframe exactly are they talking?!)

Really pleased she has a place sorted. I hope she doesn't have much longer to wait until her start date, and settles quickly into her new routine 🤞🏼

For what it's worth this thread has been making me really angry for what you and your family are going through. Especially when you said the social worker said you'd have been better putting her in care for a bit. No way ever. You are doing the best you can under terribly sad circumstances. It's been cruel waiting this extra week and possibly due to error. An absolutely broken system for everyone in it.
So very glad to read your last update. I hope your niece can get in and settled asap. And I hope you can all build your new life together. It's time you got a break. Fingers crossed for you all.

Thank you. I cant tell you how much the kindness of mumsnet strangers means. I've been on here since pregnant with my eldest who is at uni and ive seen all the comings and goings and all the criticisms and just having other women and mothers understand and offer support and help, well, I really can't tell you how much these anonymous words help and made me feel heard and understood in the face of mindless bearacrcy. I was too scared to post about the situation my family suddenly found ourselves in before in case it opened the floodgates, even though I've asked for advice about everything from potty training to A levels to chocolate cake recipes over the years, but I am glad I posted this as you have got me through the past couple of weeks and stopped me thinking I was going mad. Thank you x

@mysodapop Would you change schools if dc is settled though? Surely a bit of stability would help?

Yes prob wont change unless she isnt happy. Doubt a WL place would come up anyway.

I'm glad that they have sorted a place out, do push the school for a start day as they have 5 school days to put her on roll and aren't allowed to 'interview' you! Obviously they will want to be able to understand her needs and how they can assist but that runs side by side to her starting x
Sorry that you've had such a horrible experience with this, if you want to appeal it isn't linked to where she is on the waiting list but it may be better for her to settle in one place x