My son has just been in tears as the same child is being mean to him.

[NotABanana]

This child has picked on my son, on and off, for nearly 2 school years now. He has just been in tears as today the child has pushed him and hit him as well as bossing him around. I know it doesn't sound much but he is only seven and has had this for so long. He says he tells the teacher and nothing is ever done. The play ground staff are not his teacher more than once a week afaik.

I am tempted to tell him to hit the child back but he says he will be the one getting into trouble. I had said to him to shout "Stop it, name" next time they do it and we have had a practice.

DH is taking him in to school as the sad thing is the teacher might take more notice of him. I think they think I am over protective. The teacher says my child is a pleasure to teach but I know he needs to learn ways of handling situations.

I want to get him into judo as a way of gaining confidence but have no idea how to go about finding a class or how much they cost.

This child is much older in some ways, has a real attitude about them, and I want them to leave my son alone!

We will.

I have asked him if he is fine (yes) and I will ask him after tea if the teacher said anything to him today.

I was bullied by a girl (C) from age 7-14 (when she was finally expelled). She was the youngest of 3 daughters and their mother screamed at them and their father all the time so it was obvious where she got it from (the father left eventually). The other girls in our class were scared she would pick on them if they defended me so they would join in with her. There was no such thing as an anti-bullying policy in those days and the teachers didn't really seem to do much despite my mother talking to the teacher about it every time there was a parent-teacher interview (they all knew anyway as it was obvious). Years later my mother (also a teacher but at a different school) found out that C's daughter goes to her school and is bullying the girls in her class. They brought C in about it and C said that she had been bullied as a child at school so definitely wanted it dealt with! Not sure what world she is living in!

Sorry for waffling - just wanted to say that you are doing the right thing in not letting this go. 2 years is definitely more than long enough. and on your and your ds's behalf.

Thank you. It is awful feeling so helpless.

A friend who we see about once a year but talk says my child seems so much younger than hers. We probably have babied him a bit and maybe not given him as much responsibility, let him grow up as much as he could, be they grow up so quick anyway and what is wrong with letting them be children?

NAB, My DS has come home today with a lovely note in his planner from the class TA. His teacher is still absent, but the TA has said if it happens again he is to go straight to her. She has had a chat today with him and has asked him to point out the culprit so she can keep a closer eye and have a word with his teacher. Over all I am a lot happier!
Fingers crossed things improve with your DS.

That is great.

The teacher talked to my DS about the other child who is being bossy, etc with him but he won't tell me what until the others are in bed.

Oh, hopefully your news is good too, fingers crossed for you!

How are things NotABanana?

I was half way through a post last night when the ;lap top batter y went. Sorry.

What the teacher said was that when he and child number 2 (not as bad as the other one) are feeling sad, etc, they could tall each other and try and make it okay.

He seems happy with this so we will see how it goes.

Nothing about the real the bully.

NAB, as an ex-primary school teacher and someone who was bullied for years as a child, I can totally sympathise with you and your DS.

I don't want to necessarily defend what the teachers have said, but I would say that teachers walk a very difficult line when dealing with bullies - as I found out when I first started teaching. Because of my own experience of being bullied I would come down on bullies like a ton of bricks - and sometimes made the situation worse .

Bullies are generally v clever in the way that they bully and most would not be stupid enough to do it in a way that teachers could actually see - if, as a teacher, I witnessed an incident of verbal or physical agression I would obviously deal with it then and there. It's the low-level constant insiduous bullying that is so much harder to deal with, and is what I was subjected to as a child. I think alot of teachers under-estimate how damaging it is.

I would strongly urge parents not to encourage their children to hit back - tempting as it is. It can just make the situation much worse and make it harder for the teacher to deal with.

I did lots of circle time activities with my classes to look at how bullying made them feel, and I also made sure that they knew who to go to when they felt they were being bullied. Sometimes it can be better to encourage children to speak to their TAs rather than the teacher themselves, simply because they often have more time to talk to them - especially if the incident happened during break time and they come in and try and tell you while you're settling the class for the next lesson. The TA can then let the class teacher know at a more convenient time. I also told my kids they could come and find me in the classroom/staffroom at lunchtime and have a quiet chat.

9 times out of 10 a quiet word with the bullies, followed up by various sanctions and, as much as possible, splitting the bully up from the 'victim' (hate that word ) and from their friends (bullies thrive with an audience) was enough to stop it.

Lastly, before I stop rambling, if you want to catch the teacher in the morning best to let her know and make an appt so you can speak to her properly and she can make time for you. She could also ask her TA to take the register for her to give her more time if necessary.

Best wishes.

I've just had the same problem with my dd - also Y2. I had no idea but her friend poured it all out to her own mum who told me - I rarely get a chance to speak to the teacher so I wrote a letter and put it in dd's bag for the teacher - and although I was worried this was OTT - the school have not stopped thanking me for putting it in writing ! I named the girl who was bullying my dd and they absolutely went to town with her - in fairness I think the letter naming her was what they were waiting for to deal with it properly as they told me they had had had lots of anecdotal stuff - but no "hard evidence" as it were !

They had the girls parents in that evening - made a real example of her in front of the whole year, all the teachers in the whole school were informed - and they ran a special assembly about being kind to each other two mornings later. I can't believe how they reacted - it was so much better than I had hoped for ! She's even had an apology letter from the girl and I've had a note from her mum telling me what punishments they've given her.

This was insidious bullying too - and I was fuly expecting the "kids will be kids" reaction - so I was pleasantly surprised !

Hope your DH managed to get through to the teacher ! If not - write to the head - and staright away ! The website www.bullying.co.uk has some useful model letters, right up to writing to your MP if the school doesn't address the problem.

Good Luck

Schools across Canada have a simple bullying policy. ZERO TOLERANCE. The situation is dealt with immediately or when it is reported, inside school grounds or to and from school. It is the responsibility of every adult the children come in contact with to report to the children?s teacher and principle. We also have a community watch program where some houses on the route to schools are safe houses for children. As for the bully, the first 3 ?strikes?, the parent is called to come in and talk with the teacher and principle. The next 3, suspension and the next 3, expulsion. Both the child that is bullied and the ?bully? receive sessions with the school nurse to discuss feelings. If the ?bully? continues to shown signs of serious aggressive behaviour, outside help is found and counselling along with their parents.

I bet the reason your child?s situation is falling on deaf ears is because it is a girl bullying a boy and somehow not as bad in their eyes. I was bullied all through school. The first time I fought back was (because I just snapped), when I gave the bully a bloody nose? all the more dramatic because of 2 feet of snow. When I was hauled off to the principles office for suspension, I flipped out even more because I knew this was not my fault. He continuously provoked me. I think today the only reason they believed me was because I was one of those artsy smiling all the time kids. I didn?t get suspended in the end and that school began a policy. I remember all three public school bullies by their full name. Was completely astounded when one sent me a message on facebook and wanted to add me as a friend.

Ok? after the speel? find out if this child is bullying other children and get a coalition together to speak to the head teacher. Doesn?t sound like you are getting anywhere with the teacher. He may also be horrible to his siblings because he is being bullied at school and he feels a bit of power. I understand siblings argue but maybe point out sometimes how he feels when he is treated like that. You don?t want to create a bully from a good gentle kid.

Most embarassing confession ever on mumsnet.... when I was a child I was hauled in for being a bully.

I had never actually realised (hand on heart) that what I was doing was wrong - it wasn't pushing or anything like that - but I had really upset another girl and she had become quite scared of me.

Anyway, I never got punished as such, but a teacher sat me down and explained very calmly exactly what effect I had had on this girl, and exactly how what I had said had been interpreted by the girl. There were no threats of what would happen if I did it again, or threats of punishment. But the teacher really made me see how a victim could feel. She explained how what I was doing was affecting the girl and how it would in time affect me in terms of how others would perceive me and in terms of the friendships I would make at school (that many of them might be based on fear and not really on being liked for myself)

I was totally mortified by this (I am sitting here beetroot as I write this) and have not forgotten a word of that conversation, and I spent years afterwards trying to make it up to this girl. IME this worked far far better than any punishment I might have got.

I honestly think this kind of stuff works far far better than coming down like a ton of bricks on bullying children, especially if those children live in a reward/punish environment at home where smacking etc is perhaps acceptable as a behaviour. But I'm not sure if schools tend to advocate this approach or not? I would ask them to if not.

squiffy, thank you for sharing that - that is exactly the kind of approach I tried to take once I realised that the 'coming down like a ton of bricks' doesn't necessarily work.

I would sit the bully/bullies down and quietly talk through what was going on and explain that I would not put up with it and there would be sanctions but that I was going to trust them to do the right thing first. It is amazingly effective in most cases, but obviously there are some hard core cases that need more drastic action.

I think the problem is that often schools aren't consistent in their approach and it comes down to the individual teacher/teaching assistant/head, which can be inconsistent and confusing for children.

Humiliating the bullies can make the problem worse in my experience, but each situation is unique and need to be treated as such.

Obviously I am biased but I do think my son is quite a quiet, gentle boy and I would hate to have to toughen him up or change his personaility to stand up to this girl. She is the one who needs to change.

My son tells me she does it to other kids too. I am sure she does things where no once can see.

Good idea about the TA. They have 2 lovely, new ones in their class (one rushed out of class last week to tell me my son had been a superstar, the class had been a riot but he had been brilliant. ) and I think he would talk to them.

Dear NotABanana, I'm so sorry he's sad. He's so lucky that you take it seriously though - so you are already helping him even though you probably feel very powerless just now.

If school is not taking you seriously, I wonder whether it might be a good idea to start an incident diary used just for this purpose. Write down every report you get from your child, and what he says and get a correct date. Note whether he came up with the comment on his own or in reply to a question from you. Write down what the teachers say too....
The incidents may all look a bit trivial on their own but as they add up it will start to show the overall picture and as each week goes by the evidence will get more powerful.... I'm not a teacher but I imagine it won't hurt if school knows you are starting to log the incidents either....

I did think yesterday whether to do that but thought I might be being a bit ott. I don't want my child to get precious, especially about usual rough and tumble and teasing, but why should it be usual? Other boys have been mean (he says) too and it is hard when the boys in question were always the friendly and quiet ones.

Hi everyone,

Have only just seen this thread and nobody will know me as I am only a regular lurker rather than a regular poster (I don't have time to post much as only have access at work)

I just wanted to say that I work for an anti-bullying charity which has a helpline for parents of children who are being bullied. If anybody wants some advice on their individual situation and how to tackle the school as well as help their child, please give us a ring on 08451 205 204 between 10-4. We really can help, and we run free assertiveness training courses for children who would benefit from learning these skills too.

SC (Kidscape)

NAB, if you're going to keep an incident log then I wouldn't necessarily tell your DS that you were doing this - I obviously don't know him at all, but some children can become a little obsessed by this and just focus on all the 'bad' things that have happened that day, however small, and forget the good things.

So if he mentions something, note it down by all means and share it with the teacher/TA, then you may be able to notice a pattern (is it certain lessons, certain activites at playtime, what other children are involved, etc). This kind of info could actually be useful to a teacher trying to think of the best way to tackle a particular issue.

IKWYM about striking a balance between not wanting your child to be too precious but at the same time protecting him from the particularly unpleasant behaviour. This is the same tightrope that teachers have to walk cos we can't possibly react to every single comment a child finds upsetting and we have to recognise where there is a pattern of bullying and not just a simple falling out that resolves itself in 24 hours.

I think I will keep a log from today and not tell him. He would obsess and tell me every last thing. I don't want him getting a rep for being a baby.

DD2 has had alot of problems with one boy in her class who is just foul ( his surname is Fowle too- how funny is that!)

He is one these in insidious types who does everything very quietly but persistently.A friend of mine is actually a TA in dds class and she told me she has never noticed anything in yet she helps on the bully boys table.

I started to write down all the incidences and individually they would seem to be very trivial but they were relentless (what I call a water torture bully.)

I have been into the the school three times over the last 2 years and they have dealt withit immediatly each time and stopped him in his tracks. His teacher has always said that the list of incidences is very useful as evidence particularly when parents are called in to discuss their child's behaviour so I would encourage you to keep a log.

Agree that perhaps they don't take it so seriously as the bully is a girl. IME girl bullies are much worse.

how bizarre, our posts crossed and we were saying the same thing! you know what they about great minds . . . . . !

smartiejake, I always took girl bullies much more seriously cos their bullying generally tended to be more cruel, and went on for much longer than the boys. This is obviously a generalisation, but the boys used to argue, fall out and sort themselves out fairly quickly, whereas the girls grudges would last for ages, and they would be far more likely to start bringing in other members of the class to isolate their intended victim which is when it becomes really unpleasant.

As I said before, I think it often comes down to the individual teacher what reaction you get.

my dd was bullied persistently by another girl at school. nothing major, just little snide comments, distracting her from her work, jogging her etc etc. we repeatedly asked the teacher to move either my dd or the other girl so they weren't next to each other, but nothing happened. In the end I kept DD of school for the day, and phoned the head to explain WHY she was missing school. The girl was moved the next day. She had also been picking on dd in the playground, and this was monitored too. this was 2 years ago, and she's had no problems for over a year now.

My ds is now having problems at Cubs ; dh picked him up on weds and he had a black eye! still not quite sure what happened - will find out when i drop him off next week. he still wants to go, and i think the child responsible for the black eye has been banned for a while, but it would be nice to get to the bottom of it all. ds is by no means whiter than white, but even so... this parenting lark's a minefield isn't it!

Sorry, nothing useful to add really, just wanted to share my experience...

This is a terrible thing to say but half of me hopes she does hurt him properly so they will take it seriously as I don't feel they will otherwise. I had taken to really glaring at her when I saw her and the cheeky madam held my gaze for a while before looking away. I never catch her eyes these days.

I am not happy I put that but I am sure you all understand the sentiment behind it, not that I want my child hurt at all.

NAB have you read Cats Eye by Margaret Atwood?

Its a great book with a brilliant portrayal of how little girl bullies operate and how the behaviour affected the target of the bullying. Its a fictional novel but definitely worth reading in your situation.