Advice needed on possible ECHP plan as school have basically said they can’t meet her needs

[XJ15]

My daughter started LEY (nursery attached to primary school) when she was 3

A month or so after she started, they raised concerns about listening and attention etc and what they were putting in place to help

Fast forward a few months, they started excluding her a day or two here and there because

1. Violent outbursts towards children and staff
2. Not being able to control her
3. She is a disruption to the whole class

Now this continued on and off until the summer holidays so around 3 months

When she returned in the September (2nd year of nursery before she turned 4) they said she was doing really well and not having any issues until the last week before half term she was getting a bit tetchy

return from half term in November and the whole month was hurting kids, saying bad things and was again excluded

returned from being excluded and understood if she made wrong choices she wouldn’t be allowed back to school. Seemed to be doing ok

return January this year, had a pretty good term less a couple days where she was getting over a fever but no violence it was more anger.

we’ve now returned from February half term and she’s had 4 violent outbursts and is not listening at all.

I have done everything the school have asked me to do which is inclusive of the below

she’s on the waiting list to be assessed for autism (looking into private currently)

had a referral done for OT and she has her face to face in a couple weeks

I’ve been paying privately for her to see a psychologist weekly to help with emotions and turn taking / sharing etc as they were big factors

I went in today to collect information about her school triggers to relay back to the psychologist and OT, but instead of it being a note taking exercise based on their reports with 1 teacher, it was a meeting which took me by total surprise with 3 teachers and without my husband present

last year the head teacher said her behaviour was the worst she’d ever had

they confirmed again today her behaviour is the most severe they’ve had and especially at her age (4)

They have said the controlling and demands are disruptive the whole time and the only time she can focus is when she is 1 on 1 in a different class as she’s always worried about what everyone is doing / what’s going on rather than herself

Now I totally get the violence is not acceptable, the other kids and staff don’t deserve to be on the end of that no matter what, so please don’t think I ever think that’s acceptable. I have daily chats and made a lot of social stories for her to visualise what happens when you make nice choices and wrong ones. I taught her in November to walk away when angry and it worked up until this week.

the school have said she struggles to be in a class of 30 then when dead silent. So I then asked okay so what do you suggest private tutoring to which the head teacher laughed at me and said the borough wouldn’t fund that. I never asked them to, I was trying to ask what do I need to do, what environment would my daughter learn and be happy best in. They then said maybe a school with a unit attached. Again, silence.

I pretty much left there with no guidance what to do, considering all the school applications have closed. Every time I asked so who shall I speak to, schools won’t just say sure have 1:1 or 3:1 I need evidence from the school

”sure we can perhaps write a letter but we’re busy with meetings next week”

I spent the whole day contacting schools with these units asking what to do. They were all so helpful and said she would need an ECHP in place before even being considered so at least I know the next step

should her current school have already applied or suggested to apply for an ECHP considering they’ve pretty much said they cannot accommodate her at that school and I know I can do a parent referral, but if I force their hand to do it because they can’t have her there, is that a stronger application to the panel?

sorry I know this was a long post but it’s been a long year

I just feel like the school want her out as she’s too much trouble to deal with

for the record, yes at home she can be hardwork and testing at times, but no where near enough as school say. At home I am 1:1 of course, but they were delighted when I said I was paying for someone, then when I say well the progress I’ve seen has been great at home and until last week school was ok, they go yes but you’re doing that in a smaller atmosphere. It’s like I can’t win and I honestly feel I’ve hit rock bottom

what should I do?

Yes, they should have organised a request for EHC needs assessment before now. Is it a small school? It sounds like they don't understand the SEND processes properly to be suggesting SEND settings without having started the EHCP process.

How strong a request is depends more on the evidence provided not who initiates. You should ask to speak to the SENCO about an EHC needs assessment request and how you can work together to maximise the chances it will be accepted. Ask them what information can they provide? It needs to be written and document her strengths, needs and provision she requires.

You should apply for an EHCP yourself, using evidenced you've provided here. The school couldn't apply for one without your permission, anyway.

It always surprises me when articulate parents accuse the school of doing nothing, when the parents could initiate it themselves but haven't.

Thank you. Yes it is a very small school. I will certainly contact them Monday about this. Thanks again for the advice

Well considering the school told me (today, I might add) she needs to be in a smaller class somewhere else but didn’t mention the fact an ECHP would be needed should be the surprising factor

I literally asked “What do I need to let the local authority know of her situation to look at schools that may help”
They told me to go back to the GP and go from there

Following my own research, I contacted around 6 local schools who have these smaller units attached and every single one told me the school should have done an ECHP by now. So I have 6 schools telling me her school done nothing? It seems I’m the only one initiating here.

It’s day 1 of knowing she needs this, and I asked for advice if I should it do myself or get the school to do it.

Not everyone is lazy. Some people want the best advice so they’re not going the wrong route for their child. Be kind

The school will resist an EHCP because it'll cost them 6 grand. They just don't want to pay it. They want you to offroll.

It's time to find your mama bear and school up on SEND law. Find some groups on Facebook maybe to meet other parents in similar situations.

Start the process yourself.

This sounds all very strange to me (teacher with lots sen experience). In our setting if the school requires extra support for a child, we collect the evidence logs and send referrals to community paediatric /autism outreach/salt/BOSS etc schools will know that there is no way on Earth for you to ring a specialist setting and ask for a place - in just doesn't happen like that! It sounds as if they want her out - sorry to say this as it's horrible. What has she actually done to be excluded?! She is a 3 year old?!

It costs the school 6k in support before they can bid for any more funding. It doesn't cost the 6k to apply for an EHCP.

It sounds like they are already spending 6k in support, so are more likely to be following an Early Help route to attempt to get some support from the LA.

A parent doesn't have to follow tge graduated approach - they can go make a direct application.

The school sounds like it's following the process correctly - a process that is frustrating for schools because it doesn't move fast enough in extreme cases like this!

Google your local SENDIASS organisation as they should be able to guide you through the necessary steps

We didnt do anything as our school did nothing and blamed issues on parenting. They couldnt offer the support mine needed in the playground.
Op i think you are lucky this has been identified at nursery.
Mine had some issues at nursery. But no violence mainly defiance.
But at 4 it escalated at school to hitting, scratching, biting.

It did get better into mid y1 at nearly 6.

But we are awaiting asd /adhd diagnosis.
The hitting was because - she wont tell on other kids so its often a reaction to them being mean. She shuts down and wont communicate and is impulsive.

If yours is 4 surely you are already waiting on a school place?

Thank you so much, it’s pretty clear now they don’t want her there. It’s more the head teacher which makes sense. She’s very popular with the rest of the school including teachers and pupils

They have some funding at the moment, but they couldn’t tell me how many hours or how much, all I know is the LA came for a visit to check as I had to bring her in early, but I never get an answer, always we’ll come back to you. But then I’m told she’s never on 1:1 and she needs that and then I’m told she has some 1:1. It’s never clear when I ask. I’d love to dedicate every moment to getting my daughter where she needs to be, but the school just tell me the issues without guiding me where to go next. I can tell by your answers you’re quite anti parents but pro school, but sometimes the school aren’t always right!

Thanks!

EHCP support thread no. 4 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

Please join us here. We will help you.

This is a very specific area and you need informed advice ASAP. You are clearly not going to get that from the school.

You have been very proactive which is good.

Be careful with Sendiaas. They're on the LA's "side" not yours.

Better to look on the IPSEA website. They are independent.

Schools do not have to "pay 6 grand". That is a misunderstanding of how high needs funding works.

Thank you for your own experience, as much as I don’t wish the hard times on anyone else, it’s nice to know I’m not alone!

well I applied for her current school and she has no diagnosis at the moment, so I’m stuck in a very grey area right now. We are on the waiting list for NHS for autism and then I’ll apply at 5 for ADHD, however, my GP advised some doctors who work for the NHS also do private, and then they can cross over the follow ups to the NHS so you’re no longer waiting. I’m going to call who works at our local hospital tomorrow who does private to see how it would work.

not sure if you’re in a position to do that as it could cost around £1,500-2,000 but might help you if needed! I’ll let you know what they say, as shes so young I’d rather sort it now whilst she’s young and not have to wait 2-3 years

Thank you so much! Just off out, but when I’m back I’ll have a look and seek advice
thank you so so much!

You need to request an EHC Needs Assessment yourself, now.

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Don't wait for anyone to do it for you. They won't. The process takes 20 weeks if all goes smoothly, so time is against you.

Why do people never take the other DC being affected in the class

Another school would probably be able to deal with her better clearly this school is out of its depth to deal with her and the consequences

My DS went to a lovely nurturing primary school and they were able to put measures into place for some damaged and violent adopted DC

The school were just good at dealing with the situation

However my DS and others were physically harmed by these DC which I wasn't a huge fan of but it was dealt with.

Look around for a better school

• into account

Yes it sucks that so much of SEN is wait years or pay.

We've spent about £6k over 5 years.

I see you have already been told to contact your local sendiass.

My additional suggestions are:
make s data subject access request to the school under GDPR to get all information and notes relating to your daughter.

You may be the ones to have to put the EHCP request through. Getting these notes will help with your evidence if the school are being rubbish.

The school absolutely should have started one already, she should also be on their own internal SEN list and have an internal support plan in place.

If they haven’t it is probably because they don’t think they can meet her needs (fine) so don’t want to get involved. All very wrong.

Sending 💐 it is all very difficult and emotionally exhausting.

In our area they actually have to fund far more than £6000 now. Ehcp funding is still awarded on hours and for 32.5 hours which is the most the funding is £8000. 25 hours it’s £5000 and something. No schools can get 1-1s funded for these costs especially with the minimum wage going up in April so suprise suprise schools are saying they can’t meet needs and we have a huge issue with kids out of school and lack of specialist places. The ehcp funding hasn’t gone up for 10 years but schools costs have. The neighbouring La pays a school double for the same amount of need

What have the LEA advised you ?

There must be a list of schools that they can offer that are more suited to your DC

The other DC in your DC class are very young, clearly terrified and affected by your DC behaviour

You need to understand that too I'm afraid

Also I think you need to sit in on her class regularly to see what's actually going with your DD although she might behave differently with you there but still I'd go in for the day just to experience and understand it for yourself

It's going to be a minefield and a headache for you moving forward

And I'm so sorry for that OP because I know how hard it's been for people i know getting their DC correctly assessed and go to schools that can help

Ultimately all the DC need to be kept safe and the right provision found for your DD which will be hard because there isn't much provision really

She needs a school with lots of experienced SEN TAs of which there aren't many tbh to support her