School response to violence

[MinnieMouse1234]

My daughter is in y2 and it’s clear that there are some pupils in her class with various behavioural needs. I’m concerned what my daughter takes from how this is handled.

I’m pleased that she has learned empathy and understanding, and that everyone is different and that people deal with their emotions differently. I’m concerned that the concept of violence being wrong isn’t being spoken about.

I feel like she’s getting the impression that ‘sometimes boys can’t control their anger’.

Is this normal in Primary schools? Am I being old fashioned to think that a ‘what ‘x’ did was wrong and he’s working on that to try and not do it again’ is something that could be said? Teachers - please tell me!

I’m trying to think rationally about this whilst also raging about normalising violence at the same time….

Am I being old fashioned to think that a ‘what ‘x’ did was wrong and he’s working on that to try and not do it again’ is something that could be said?

Of course that’s not unreasonable or old fashioned. What’s being said/done otherwise? Is it something the teacher has directly said to you or your DD’s reporting of how the teacher has dealt with it? Because those two things can be wildly different.

Sometimes "boys"? Or "X can't control his emotions because..."

I mean those particular children may be boys but I doubt the staff are saying boys in general can't control their anger!

And what if these children were girls? The most violent child I worked with in an infant school was a girl.

There was one incident last year and my daughter was really upset as the kid didn’t apologise and it seemed that the school didn’t seem that it was appropriate for them to because they need to take into consideration each pupils learning needs (or similar - I’m paraphrasing). There was a consequence in line with their behaviour plan, but acknowledgment that they did something wrong to my daughter wasn’t part of that - and it left her lacking a bit of closure.

There are instances where the whole class is disrupted due to violence - but seemingly no talk of wrongdoing (yes reported by daughter)

I’m not saying that only boys can be violent. I’m asking… should the school be making it clear that violence is not ok. I think that there are a range of factors in the mix here and I’m wondering what is normal in other primary axh

Primary schools are now being forced to accept children with SEN who are not capable to coping in a mainstream classroom.

This forced acceptance is having a massive detrimental effect on not only the ND learners but the NT learners as well.

There is violence and other disruptions and not enough adults to manage.

And all the while all they bleated on about it

All behaviour is communication

Is it fuck!!!

Sorry typo meant to say ‘schools’

If I were you I'd be doing that educating at home.

"X was wrong. What they did was bad and you shouldn't have to put up with that. Stay away from them and if they try to hurt you you can shout and defend yourself"

Hmm it’s a bit hard to say if we’re going on the recounts of a 6-7 year old. Not to say that your DD is lying or anything of course, but children’s retellings can often be far from accurate. It is true that we’re seeing an increase in additional behavioural needs in the classroom and it’s becoming harder and harder to manage these, especially when the children become violent, but I think it’s more likely that the teacher would have dealt with it appropriately than not. Of course not all teachers are perfect, but if they’re dealing with it according to the child’s EHCP or behavioural plan, a part of that would involve some reflection, whether immediate or once their emotions are more regulated (whichever will be most impactful for that particular child).

I know that’s not helpful for you as your main concern is understandably your DD, but there is often more going on behind the scenes than parents realise. Sometimes I wonder if parents would rather see these children with SEN publicly flogged! (Not you specifically, just from my own experience of managing situations like this.)

If your daughter is being hurt by another child being violent you need to contact school every single time and ask how they are going to safeguard her. It is not acceptable and she shouldn't be considered collateral damage. Yes the funding situation in schools is very difficult but your responsibility is to your child. Don't accept that this is inevitable. It is difficult to manage but that's not your problem, your child's safety an wellbeing is. You aren't in opposition with the parents of the child doing the violence, they will want their child supported properly as well.

Good comment. I agree with this.
Do not rely on the school to teach the children rights and wrongs. Some schools are good but others pussyfoot around it.

Yeah, I know what you’re saying, and please believe that I’m not that person. I’m sure that across numerous incidents, the staff have acted accordingly to that child’s needs. I guess what I’m really trying to understand is following an incident - what is said - if anything - to the class?

It's not "difficult to manage" pupils with dangerous behaviour, typically. It's usually "impossible to manage, except by removing interventions and support for other pupils who are less dangerous or disruptive, but who will not make progress and may be highly distressed without their support."

I think that probably not much if anything is said to the class. It is very difficult as the teachers have to maintain confidentiality and also keep in mind the child's dignity. Knowing that the teacher has just told the whole class that your behaviour is wrong or unacceptable at a very young age is probably going to cause damage. When students are older the message that the behaviour is wrong is more obviously given through visible sanctiobs such as removal or suspension. It is v unlikely that your dd does not know that the behaviour is wrong.

I meant the whole provision from the LA, the trust and head, not just the staff on the ground. It takes months to get vulnerable children the right support in place but the parents of any children being attacked shouldn't just put up and shut up.

Months?
Years if EVER.

There is no provision for a lot of children.

@MinnieMouse1234 A school cannot name and shame and most won’t say SEN is bad behaviour. There’s no apology from a SEN child with emotional and behaviour problems displaying those problems. Teachers won’t ask for one. Years ago they would. Your DD won’t get “closure” whatever that looks like! She will have to learn to stay clear of certain dc.

My DD was the sort of child who was relied upon to sit next to an emotionally immature dc. Some dc with very vocal parents would never have been put next to this dc. After my DD had done her stint, I asked for her to move. It was constant disruption and then he’d get under the table. You have to advocate for your DD. It’s the responsibility of the school to keep every child safe. My DD was 4 when all of this was going on. She was an August birthday - YR. I totally believed her and she was correct. The teacher says dc like mine helped the other dc be better. DD had had enough at 4. By 7 her avoidance techniques were honed.

why groom your daughter to tolerate understand and be empathetic to violence, is that how you want her to grow up as an adult?
are you prepping her to stay in domestic abusive relationships as an adult?
i honestly don’t see how this exposure is at all beneficial to a growing child and mind. she needs a calm learning environment with safe boundaries.

It’s unlikely anything will be said to the entire class. There may be general assemblies or PSHE lessons about managing conflict or something like that, but I’d be shocked if a child was singled out as a discussion point for the whole class, regardless of the circumstances.

What exactly are you expecting the OP to do here?

DD had a violent child in her class, disrupted the lessons day in day out and more often than not had to evacuate the classroom and sit in the hall for a couple of hours.

You can have all the empathy in the world, but the class were suffering.

It got to the point that the violence was normalized and the kids never really spoke about it - unlike PP advice, that kids don’t tell the whole truth - they learn not to bother speaking about it because it’s normal, even to the point other kids wind up the violent kid to get out of lessons, they like to tease and cause a fuss.

Several children moved schools, DD was one of them.

Dont underestimate the impact this has on your daughter’s learning. It’s not OK.

unlike PP advice, that kids don’t tell the whole truth - they learn not to bother speaking about it because it’s normal

I don’t mean kids don’t tell the whole truth, I mean that they tell from their own perspectives which may not include the details of how the teacher managed the situation (especially as they won’t be privy to most of it), which was what OP queried. I have no doubts that OP’s DD is telling the truth about the violent behaviour.