What happens when a school can’t meet a child’s needs?

[tiddlerislate]

Child is in reception but repeating the year. Severely autistic and non verbal, not toilet trained. He has an EHCP.

Parents want him to attend the local primary school but they have expressed concern they can’t meet his needs. I guess I’m asking what happens then - whose views bear most weight? Can parents insist he attends the school they want him to?

We wanted mainstream for our DS because in a specialist school he's surrounded by children whose social skills are just as poor as his so he isn't learning anything from them and he's moderately avenue academic which isn't at all catered for in any specialist schools which will take him.
Nevertheless all the mainstream schools refused to take him and the LEA didn't push them so he's in a specialist school.

@drspouse I am sorry to hear you had the same experience with LA SEN schools and lack of education. I cried in the car at every LA school we went to.
My son is the same and academically capable.

I don't want anyone to think I think less of the SEN children- I truly don't. I frequently consider leaving to work in a SEND school. I find working with them rewarding.
It's just not working having to teach them in the mainstream classroom with mainstream demands, curriculum, assessment etc.
it's not working for them, me or the other children.
If all classes were bigger, with continuous provision, more adult support, a less full curriculum and less focused on ticking boxes for ofsted it could be possible- and preferable- but more expensive than the current system for sure.

It's not an LEA specialist school.

As in classrooms bigger, class numbers smaller. 20 max say.

There needs to be a greater diversity of SEN schools I think.

Near me there seems to be a growing number of specialist secondaries for students with Autism and Anxiety related conditions with smaller class sizes and more flexible learning environments, which cater to more academic pupils who don't fit into mainstream but also don't fit into the traditional non-academic very high ratio SEN schools.

Hopefully this is a step in the right direction. I think either parents need more choice, or mainstream needs to have more streams? Like a 'movement breaks and chunked learning' stream and a 'quiet classroom' stream, etc. I found the biggest problem teaching mainstream to be the variety of needs within one classroom, all form pupils who could learn well if those needs were met, but whose needs clashed with each other.

I don't think such schools should be only for children with SEN. Smaller class sizes and calmer environments would benefit a lot of children. And children with poor social skills aren't going to learn those from each other.

@fajitanight @tiddlerislate I don't think anyone in this thread has been unkind or viewing SEND children as purely disturbances.

I think sadly a lot of children get overlooked/ pushed aside when a SEND child is whose needs aren't being met is left to become distressed and disrupt the class. It's a lose lose for everyone and people are allowed to point out the effect it has on children who can cope in mainstream.

Those children are important too & they have a right to have the opportunities and stuff that will help them reach their potential. It's not good enough for example that trips are cancelled for everyone. They also have a right to remain safe, which sadly can be a problem when there are unmet needs in the class (same for the SEND children & staff- everyone's mental & physical safety is at risk when their needs aren't being met).

At the end of the day, everyone here is on the same side, which is a brilliant education for EVERY child that meets their needs. Be that a classical education in mainstream, mainstream with support, or alternative provisions. Every single child deserves a stellar education.

@Sherrystrull I genuinely would. As awful as it perhaps sounds, if some kids can benefit and some can't, I'd rather the trip went ahead with those that can benefit.
Equality is wonderful but shouldn't be used to drag anybody's opportunities down, only up.

I think it's so wrong to say that because some children can't cope, nobody gets that experience.

I appreciate this may not work on a practical level (eg number of staff etc) but I'd expect it to be the goal.

No pile on from me. But I have been the parent of a child at special school, who saw several children join in year 1, year 3 (common entry points) and year 8. The stories I heard from parents whose child had been at mainstream until that point were quite awful.

The year 8 child who joined DD1's class had required full 1:1 support at mainstream, with a TA doing everything for them. Day 1 of special school, the child was independent. Because the environment was set up in such a way that it didn't matter if she got it wrong - she'd still be safe.

I've also been the governor at a school that had several children with SEN, whose needs they couldn't meet and 1:1 TAs they couldn't recruit.

The thread is absolutely foul @anonhop . If you can’t see it then honestly there is something amiss, it’s just a pile on of disabled children and their parents. I wish they’d choose another thread to do it but I’m fairly resigned to it by now.

And if they are directed the schools will usually ask for a huge amount of funding which can be helpful, but if there is no good will to help that child they'll either be 'educated' very badly in a hall by an unqualified TA away from their class, or school will allow them to keep misbehaving until they are excluded

This. And then get very upset and want to take the LA to tribunal as there are no spaces. It's very sad.

It absolutely is the goal for me. I find it hugely frustrating that we can't staff trips and therefore they don't happen. We can't borrow from other year groups as they need their staff and parent helpers either don't offer or don't cut it.

Residentials are becoming an issue too. No staff volunteer to go and the school can't run without the amount of staff needed to ensure the success of a trip.

It all comes back to funding. If we had staff we could make it work.

So the Head would prefer everyone misses out? That doesn’t make sense. That’s even worse.

The head prefers no one misses out but safety is priority.

Absolutely disgusted by the views on here. Some really nasty comments that dehumanise disabled children.

There's nothing worse than seeing a child 'contained' in mainstream, being occupied to reduce distraction to other children, when they could be having their communication boosted, joint attention developed, Speech and Language therapy woven into their day, occupational therapy woven into their day, and physiotherapy woven into their day.

In special schools, every part of the day is teaching time. The staff facilitate play at break time and sit with the children at lunch time.

Along with blaming of their parents for the failings of the education system.

@Buscake I mean this 100% with all sincerity but would you mind quoting/ pointing out the foul views? I genuinely just don't see it & I don't want to be repeating unkind messages etc & I want to understand what it is that upsets people. I don't know how to phrase it but I am completely willing to be educated on what it is that is felt to be dehumanising or degrading because if it's something I've said or agreed with, I'd want to know & stop!

Yup. Most parents of children with SEN would give their arm and a leg to get a coverted specialist placement. LAs will fight tooth and nail to avoid specialist. If you've been offered specialist and are pushing for mainstream you are failing your child and neglecting their needs. (And presumably in denial)

All EHCPs are not created equal. To 'get' a suitable special placement the EHCP needs to specify needs that can only be met in that sort of specialist placement.

A lot of EHCPs aren't worth the paper they are written on - the LA will refuse to commission the appropriate reports, they'll be badly drafted etc. Then they won't fund the support at the correct level. An EHCP isn't a magic wand. And there are hardly any specialist placements anyway, especially if the child is academically able.

It takes heaps of social capital, energy and knowledge to get through the whole process and understand it. Lots of parents won't have that. And -as amply demonstrated on this thread- people are awful about disabled children so psychologically (and culturally in lots of cases) you can understand why it's difficult for some families.

DD has an EHCP. She's in mainstream. Hope that's ok with everyone else here. Autism's not catching though (don't worry!), and she's a damn sight better behaved than everyone else in the class.

Also, being non verbal doesn't necessarily mean low academic ability. I have a younger family member who was non verbal until 8 or so, but will be taking their maths GCSE in year 7.

He understands everything you say to him, he’s a lovely boy in fact.

So wanting your child to learn social skills from children whose skills are good and wanting them to have the opportunity to take GCSEs is being in denial?

Note also the two schools closed in the NW for abuse were specialist not mainstream.