What happens when a school can’t meet a child’s needs?

[tiddlerislate]

Child is in reception but repeating the year. Severely autistic and non verbal, not toilet trained. He has an EHCP.

Parents want him to attend the local primary school but they have expressed concern they can’t meet his needs. I guess I’m asking what happens then - whose views bear most weight? Can parents insist he attends the school they want him to?

@Sherrystrull it's not fair for children that can cope with trips to miss out because some can't :(

I'm a teacher and the whole system is education system for SEN is broken.

In my county, if a child is placed in mainstream and then the parent decides to move to a SEN provision this takes approx two years.

We are 'holding' so many children with disabilities and behaviour that it's almost impossible to teach some classes.

I just want to thank some of the posters who have helped me understand the system. I am not personally involved, but trying to help a friend a bit. I am lucky: my children are verbal, able to access their local school without any problems. I hope that when they do inevitably come across a child with severe needs there they will be kind and helpful and above all compassionate. As yes my children are not disabled but I do not know what may happen in the future; none of us do.

Also, I would advise that the parents look around all SEN provisions - even the private ones as LA's are now funding places for these.

This is a sad thread, if it reflects what lots of people really think about send children and their parents :(

( I am a teacher that has 4 children with ehcps in my primary class. )

It does, doesn’t it?

That they are a nuisance who get in the way of school trips and fun activities for the ‘normal’ children, and if they don’t get invited to parties it is their own fault.

I work in a college with 18+, but the same situation may occur. None of the views "bear most weight" as such. The Local Authority (LA) would consider the person's needs and how these needs could be met. If we were asked to take the pupil, it would be determining what we would need to do to meet the needs and whether the it was realistic that we could do this, taking into account the facilities we had and what we could realistically provide with the funding that was allocated for the pupil as part of the EHCP. There would be a discussion process between the LA, the college, the parents and the pupil (supposing they were capable of having a view) as to what would be done to meet the needs and whether we could it. I guess it the LA determined that that by doing X, we could meet the needs of the pupil, and that reasonably we could do X, they could say we had to take the pupil. Also though, they could determine that doing X would be too expensive or just wouldn't work in our setting, and then they could tell the parent and pupil that they could offer a place at this or that institution, but not at this one.

Yes, see also every thread about SEN/autistic children ever. Sadly.

I’m really sorry you’ve had to read them. I found it upsetting and it isn’t even my child so it must be devastating.

I agree. But what do you suggest? Tell children with additional needs they can't come?

They still do them at our school but invite the parents of the very small number of children to go too. Or suggest they don’t go if they don’t have enough staff. Otherwise it’s not fair on the other children to miss out.

If your child can't make friends with other children then there are not benefits to a mainstream school. A child with one-to-one support who can't communicate is unlike to make friends. That is the only benefit to mainstream education. They are not equipped to teach your child.

That's great if it works for you. Not all parents can be invited on school trips for a variety of reasons. If we had unlimited staff then we could make them work I'm sure for all children. But we don't.

That they are a nuisance who get in the way of school trips and fun activities for the ‘normal’ children, and if they don’t get invited to parties it is their own fault.

Literally no one has said this.

“Child is in reception but repeating the year. Severely autistic and non verbal, not toilet trained. He has an EHCP.”

I’m sorry , but what benefits do the parents think this child will benefit from going to a mainstream school.

Don't even know where to start... 👋

My son is none verbal and autistic.

We had a battle with the council for his EHCP but as soon as the educational psych saw him we were able to get a SEN place.

It was hard on us and his siblings, for
him to leave the local primary and thus the community to some extent BUT it wasn’t hard for him.

He has never been happier. It’s hard in terms of holidays, wraparound, being back for transport, distance etc etc but he can now join in with everything. He gets to go on trips, goes to the assemblies, is learning and more than anything he’s so much happier.

He didn’t stop anyone doing anything, he was just excluded from it all.

Something to keep in mind is their child will likely get sent home a lot (‘unwell’) when they can’t support, they might not be able to access wraparound or clubs and they’ll likely home more dysregulated.

If you have any questions about the processes I would be happy for you to pop me a message. We didn’t get to the point of being told he couldn’t be there but it would have happened at some point.

But true

In my LA there are not enough special school places so even if the parent preferences special and/or the EHCP names a special school, children are in mainstream, even though the school cannot meet need.

In these cases ( for some schools 4 or 5 pupils in this situation), the schools are doing their best, often with a separate room set up and staffed using existing staff. Staff are also doing their best but are not specifically trained for these high needs pupils.

A mess of a system, especially for the children.

No.

That's what they legally should do.

In reality they will; hide/lose/ignore medical evidence, lie, pretend to consult with specialist placement and tell the parents they said no, break numerous laws, ignore SEN code of practice, deny panel access to relevant documentation so they cannot make an informed decision, use every delay tactic going, break a few more law, blame the parents a couple of times, blame the school, "forget" xyz, change case officer at least every 3 months so you have to start over, ignore emails, ignore phone calls, break a few more laws, hide a few more documents, make up their own rules that directly go against the SEN code of practice, gaslight the parents, offer a measly 'whoopsy!' when you finally get through to a stage 2 complaint, offer tribunal dates 18 months later so damage is well and truly done, completely ignore requests for mediation...

And God knows what else! That's only 1 persons experience of the past 18 months.

That they are a nuisance who get in the way of school trips and fun activities for the ‘normal’ children, and if they don’t get invited to parties it is their own fault.

This trivialises things a lot.

The truth is, some children's needs are so severe that some schools (no matter how hard they try ) can't even keep them safe , much less provide at least an adequate environment for that child to thrive or learn.

It's not that they get in the way, it's that they are actively harmed by being in mainstream .

@NewDogOwner every SEN child
is different in terms of what they might or might not gain from mainstream. It’s a spectrum.

In my experience, from visiting many, many schools, there is a big difference in the actual education available at mainstream versus SEN. The differences can be huge,
so making friends is not the only consideration at all for children or parents.

Never mind all the other things such as location, community, siblings, opportunities, wraparound care, clubs … and so on.

This is one of society's difficult conversations, because the number of high need children has risen, but people don't want to pay for the additional provision in their taxes.

I know this is not the point of the thread but every time I hear anyone complaining about tax rises, or ways to pay less tax, I get so cross!!

This is the relevant document.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/send-code-of-practice-0-to-25

People should maybe consider both parents of SEN children and adults who are none verbal and autistic, or need additional
support with different needs, could be reading this thread.