Forced Bilingualism Welsh

[User1911]

Hi!
My DD5 is currently in a welsh stream school and has been for a year. We feel she hasn’t picked up as much as we had hoped, especially in comparison to her peers who come from welsh speaking homes.

We are an English speaking family no welsh at all spoken through any family member. No support available to her bar school.

We are considering moving her to a lovely English stream school. But she will be leaving a lot of good friends/mums. It’s a very hard decision to make but I really want to be able to support her fully in her education which I feel I cannot do at the moment.

I really do know all the benefits of bilingualism and that’s why we put her in a Welsh school.

But I’m looking for parents who decided against it and maybe switched over. Reasons why and how it worked out? Did you feel better making the switch and choosing just English?

Have you tried immersion at home so watching Welsh medium shows, reading books in Welsh.
Learning it yourselves so you can all speak it.

She has no interest in watching welsh shows unfortunately. I have tried to learn in put can’t get passed basics. It’s a difficult language to pick up as an adult. I cannot read any welsh books to her as I don’t know how to pronounce or read welsh words appropriately. This will then confuse her as she will be hearing it incorrectly at home and correctly at school.

I have given it a good go for a year and whilst her friends are speaking and writing basic sentences in welsh. She u set stands little bits but cannot read or write it at all. This is then also impacting her English as she is not being taught any English at school and won’t be untill she hits junior age.

My worry is we leave it any longer and she still dosnt pick it up she is going to be so behind with her English aswel as not knowing any welsh.

I'm a monoglot who sends/sent their children to a Welsh medium school.

First up, at the age of 5 comparing your daughter with children from fluent Welsh homes does her no credit. Her peers will have a shocking grasp of English basics which will become abundantly clear in Bl3 when they add English into the curriculum. By Bl5/6 it all levels out.

Secondly, have you spoken to the teacher about her progress, or perceived lack of? Do the teaching staff think she's struggling to get to grips with the language. I'd hold off making a decision until you've had that conversation at least.

Of my children's peers, very few needed to switch to English stream. One was very early on, and supported by the teaching team. The other made the switch going into high school and walked away with a Welsh A* GCSE with very little effort.

Don't be discouraged, but also it may well be worth your daughter switching if Welsh really isn't working for her. Best of luck figuring it all out.

I have spoken to the teacher yes. She says she can understand what is being said to her within class but does not speak it but she isn’t concerned about it. But is it that she understands or she’s following everyone else?

When I speak to my daughter she says she has no idea what is being said in school to her. I ask her what the teacher has said and it’s always “I don’t know” she saying she’s asks a lot to things to he said in English and is always told no. It breaks my heart to think everything around her is welsh and she has no idea what’s going on. Where the other kids would.

She will be in year one in sept and things are going to get even harder when she’s expected to sit at a desk and listen to the teacher up front, who is giving instructions all in welsh.

Im really sad for her as she’s made lovely friends. But I wan to be able to support her fully in her education but I can even read her reading book to her at this level, let alone as she progresses through school.

Mine all speak welsh but went English stream- which has now paid off because eldest DD is looking at uni and welsh language taught sciences are at a disadvantage for certain courses.

It depends on what the setup for later education is- is it Welsh medium within a mainly English language school, or the choice of Welsh/English at different schools etc. I think because we're not far off the border we found it less of a necessity to continue with Welsh language provision, however they are exposed to the language and I may have chosen Welsh stream if it was more popular locally rather than a remote primary that would have been a heck of a bus ride and then moving to a single welsh stream class within an English speaking high school.

I'm surprised the school can't offer some support to you- during lockdown and home schooling it caused a lot of issues and Welsh stream schools had to provide additional support to non-welsh speaking parents, they perhaps have some of those resources still on hand?

Duolingo does Welsh, if that's any help.

just seen how young your DD is- I'd give it a bit more time, good old S4C programmes to immerse her at home, she's very young, they're like sponges at that age, she'll likely just suddenly click, I was assuming she was 8/9 (sorry) But definitely ask if they had any additional resources for home schooling for non-welsh speakers.

Id move her, you'll both make new friends. I honestly have no idea why English only speaking parents put their kid in a Welsh school, this caught a lot of parents out in Covid when they had to home school! I was forced to learn Welsh until 16 and it brought me no benefit.

If you move her now, friendships won’t really be an issue. It will get harder as she gets older.

I wonder if you could 'hire' a Welsh teen to tutor but to do it more as a babysitting gig even if you are at home so doing crafts, baking and playing board games but only speaking Welsh. If she's 1:1 with someone she's built a relationship with she'll be able to ask questions and ask what things mean easier than at school.

It's quite normal for children who come to England as EAL to not understand at first, and then eventually they understand written and spoken but don't speak it often because they are nervous of getting it wrong and then suddenly they just erupt and by the end of Primary you'd never know any different. Immersion at home is what makes a difference though and speedsup the process. So just like if she were learn French / Spanish stick post it's up around the house with the word written in English and Welsh, as she becomes a more fluent reader she'll benefit from having access to both.

She has lots to learn in all subjects right now at infants age, I'd stick with it until moving up to Juniors/KS2 and see how she goes then contemplate moving

Even in an English streamed school she will learn welsh as its compulsory. I would be tempted to leave her where she is another year and assess progress. It maybe that she is understanding but not translating which is why she can't tell you etc. I would go with welsh speaking home helper of some sort for some at home activity in welsh - if its fun she may get on with it

oh yeah my experience was of moving to Wales aged 8 and into English speaking school but learning alot of welsh and was quickly at same level as other kids in school

I'd move her while it's still fairly easy. She will easily fall into place with the new school and new friends and relax into a familiar language.

It must be so hard for her!

Do either of you intend to speak Welsh? I think it would make sense if so but if not I'd not keep her in an environment that she can't really share with you unless you had a very strong reason for it.

Some years ago as mine are adults.

Our daughter was 10 when we moved from
England to Wales, my son older.

When our daughter was 13 we had to get permission for her to not participants in Welsh lessons any longer as she wanted to concentrate on other subjects.

We had at that point told her not to go to that class and to report to the student counsellor.

Oddly enough she has picked up more Welsh than any of us by having Welsh speaking friends!

I've lived in Wales most of my life, my now adult children were educated here from nursery level. The school they went to had both English and Welsh medium sections, they were educated in the English section. They then went on to English medium secondary school, one went to university here and they both now live here and have excellent jobs. They did the compulsory half GCSE in Welsh but that's the extent of their knowledge of Welsh. The fact they only have a smattering of Welsh has made absolutely no difference to their lives and careers whatsoever.
In the last census 17% of people living in Wales could speak Welsh. You will not be doing your child a disservice if you move her. Like a pp, I cannot understand why a non-Welsh speaking family would educate their child through the medium of Welsh. How on earth are you going to be able to help with any any school work especially if she goes on to a Welsh medium secondary school which presumably she would from a Welsh medium primary.
She's unhappy and not progressing, I'd move her sooner rather than later.

I put both mine in Scottish Gaelic medium education.

DS failed to pick up enough Gaelic to progress. We pulled him out in primary 4. He has some other stuff going on, which turned out to be ASD. But his inability to learn Gaelic was definitely holding him back from accessing the curriculum.

DD struggled in Primary 1. She was probably where your DD is now. Her ability really picked up towards the end of Primary 2. Now, at Primary 4, she's one of the best Gaelic speakers in her class.
She probably has dyslexia which complicates things a little. It means that we have to do a lot of English work at home as the level of tuition she gets at school (one day of English per week only recently) is probably not enough to get her reading and writing fluently.

In your position I would keep your DD where she is. Particularly if she is happy and has a nice friendship group. One year is not long to learn a language, even for a child. So I think it's a little early to conclude that it's not going to work.

Id give it another year and work on English stuff at home.

Thanks everyone for the input so far il try answer a few of the questions in one.

There is a choice on secondary really strict welsh which I probably wouldn’t choose. 80/20 welsh/english or English stream with significant welsh.

The English school I have viewed for her also has significant welsh so she will still be immersed into the language and have a good understanding of it but the majority of her lessons will be English. I think this as a family would suit us better as it the best of both worlds really.

The suggestions for leaving it longer….We don’t think this would be beneficial for our DD. Friendships will be formed and if she is still struggling with welsh she would not have been taught any English either. This would mean she would be transferring to an English stream WAY behind everyone else in reading and writing. If it is to be done it has to be done now.

its so much pressure and I’m making myself ill worrying over it. I have such a strong mum network there and also she has a strong friendship group already.

Ive never moved a child schools before and I’m so worried will they except her. Will they except me. Will they already had strong connections and not let her in? I’m so worried.

She will still have to learn Welsh tho, even in an English-stream school, if the school is still in Wales.

I'd move her now. She will make new friends at such a young age. I had to move school when I was 7yo and managed fine, I moved dd at a similar age and she was fine.

I have children in welsh education and although my dh is fluent we don’t speak it at home. So aged 5, my children weren’t as fluent as many of the children in the class as mine were second language. However, now they’re in year 3 and year 7 and totally fluent. They both picked up English reading extremely quickly in year 2/3 and were at the same level as children in English medium schools by year 5. Mine actually prefer to read in English, even the year 3 who is newer to it.

I wouldn’t be concerned at age 5 because I wouldn’t expect a 5 year old to pick up the language and be as fluent as first language welsh speakers already- it’s not realistic. However if you do want to move her then now is the time I would say. She would easily make new friends due to her being so young and would easily pick up the English phonics

All children who learn in a second language will be like this at 5 - not saying much (they actually think this is one of the reasons children learn languages better than adults - nobody pressurises them to speak) and understanding a little but not really grasping what "understanding" means. Think of all the children who are new to the UK, start school having no English, and get brilliant GCSEs- immigrant families often get the best results.
Knowing the benefits of learning a second language, I'd keep her where she is. It's not the Welsh per se but being bilingual.
My DD has the chance to go to a semi-bilingual secondary school (probably 75% English) and all the children will be more or less beginners in Y7. We're really excited about it.

I wouldn’t move her in reception. It’s so so early to have any expectation of her Welsh ability at the moment.
Mine are in year 2 and 3 Welsh stream and we’re not a fluent Welsh speaking family. They didn’t expect them to speak back in Welsh until well into year 1. Now they understand and speak so much, it’s incredible.
Yes they don’t learn English until year 3 but it’s amazing how much they know without being taught. My eldest can read English fluently without having ever been taught.
I would advise trying to get some Welsh lessons yourself as it’s important to be able to read with her. Welsh isn’t a hard language to learn once you know the alphabet, it’s very phonetic

This is what concerns me. I do understand children are in a welsh setting and it is not spoken at home BUT 9/10 there will be someone in the family that does have knowledge of welsh. Normally one parent can support or even grandparents.

We have no one at all that can speak welsh in our family or friends network. It would only be through school she would have any support as she moves up the school. Things like the summer holidays is worrying.

She will not hear, speak or read a lick of welsh every summer then have to go back into a fully welsh speaking setting where all her friends have spoken or been read to everyday. I feel this is going to set her back every year. Even the kids who don’t speak welsh at home have someone to support them. I’m hearing “we don’t speak at home but they go to their grandparents 3x a week and they speak welsh” etc My DD dosnt have that at all.

She will still have to learn Welsh tho

Yes but at least the rest of her education will be in English.

Is she happy at school? (Not necessarily the same as does she have friends). She will catch up language wise, and consequently academically. You only have to look through mumsnet to see how many parents agonise about their 5 year old’s comparable progress in all English speaking schools. But equally, she will also
make new friends if you move her school, and it sounds like she will still
learn a decent amount of Welsh. So for me, it would come to whether she is happy or not. If she’s happy to just bumble along and gradually understand more and more, then leave her be. If she’s upset about not understanding the teacher etc, move her.