Forced Bilingualism Welsh

[User1911]

Hi!
My DD5 is currently in a welsh stream school and has been for a year. We feel she hasn’t picked up as much as we had hoped, especially in comparison to her peers who come from welsh speaking homes.

We are an English speaking family no welsh at all spoken through any family member. No support available to her bar school.

We are considering moving her to a lovely English stream school. But she will be leaving a lot of good friends/mums. It’s a very hard decision to make but I really want to be able to support her fully in her education which I feel I cannot do at the moment.

I really do know all the benefits of bilingualism and that’s why we put her in a Welsh school.

But I’m looking for parents who decided against it and maybe switched over. Reasons why and how it worked out? Did you feel better making the switch and choosing just English?

It's too early to panic like this. The school will have supported many children like your daughter before. If they're happy, don't worry. Unless there is an underlying issue, she will catch up.

There are many benefits to having fluent Welsh and it sounds like you're in a fairly Welsh speaking area if many of her friends speak it at home? If so, if she doesn't learn there will ultimately be career options she's limited in or excluded from altogether.

It takes a couple years for dc to start understanding and pick up the language when they do not have the language at home and the school is bilingual. How many hours is she getting welsh? Is it exactly half and half? The best way to speed it along is to hire a Welsh speaking teen or uni student looking to earn some money to speak and play/read to your dd in welsh. It takes a bit of effort at the start, but once they pick it up it becomes a lot easier. I am saying this as someone who has a similar, but with a different language....and it worked out well for us, but we put a lot of effort at the begging....encouraging, praise, youtube short cartoons/songs in the language, flash cards (i learned some basic vocab pronunciation and went through the flash cards to help assist learning). I thought of useful words needed for day to day. We got outside help to speak the language.

May I ask why you are so adamant that she fluent in Welsh when everyone in Wales is fluent in English.

It's more important that she gets an education and is happy.
Are you managing to live and communicate living in Wales whilst not speaking Welsh?

Also, you do seem to be worrying about whether you will make friends at a new school. What does that have to do with anything. Surely it should be all about your child.

I’m not worrying about myself making friends. I’m worried my child will and at this age her friendships at some percentage depend on me.

We have a strong group at her school as I have put the work in with the mothers and put myself in the circle, organised play dates and days out, to form her a good network. I’m well aware that this could also be happening in her “new” school and will be a lot harder to break into established groups that have been together well over a year at this point.

From your post you clearly aren’t welsh. Things are a lot different where I live. 50% of people where I live speak welsh, I know the benefits of speaking two languages and it can effect jobs somewhat if you were going into a certain sector eg welsh government. We wanted to give it a go, we have and now we have experience of how it works are having second thoughts. Im reaching out to people who have been in my situation for guidance and experience.

My DC go to Welsh school, I don’t speak Welsh. Years 3 and reception. My reception child can speak a few basic phrases, and understands a lot, but is miles away from being fluent. My older DC didn’t seem to click with the fluent speaking until halfway through year 1, although he understood everything from nursery age.

Your DD doesn’t sound behind at all, if she’s in reception she has only done 2/3 of a year, not even a whole one.

My older DS’ English is much better than his Welsh and I’m sure it always will be, but he’s still 100% fluent in Welsh.

I think there is a little confusion to my post. I really don’t expect my child to be fluent welsh at this point. I just think she should have some sort level of basic word writing/reading. As they would have they went to an English stream.

She comes home and tells me she dosnt understand what is being said to her in school. She says she dosnt like story time as it’s all in welsh and they won’t tell her in English what it’s about. She still through assemblies not knowing a word of what being said to her. This may be the case from what I’m reading here untill year 2/3 when it may or may not click. Imagine being in a room for 6 hours a day where people aren’t speaking your language? I think my DD has just been really unlucky with her group. Mostly it’s a 50/50 split to who speaks welsh and English but in her year I’d say 80% are welsh speaking at home. So obviously there will be less English spoken in school as the other children are competent already.

I am in a fairly English-speaking area bordering with welsh language heartlands (meaning areas where it's the majority language). About a third of the kids in the local Welsh medium secondary have no Welsh at home at all - several come from households where no English is spoken either. People who value Welsh-medium education come from all sorts of linguistic backgrounds.

It's a bit early for your DD I think. My DC2 is in a bilingual school and is a bit older than your DD but not much. In the space of a year they have gone from not really having a clue what was going on with Welsh to understanding, reading and writing like their welsh-speaking-household friends, and sounding 100% native.

Just to add from the point of children 'being like sponges' in picking up languages. Some just aren't. We have no experience with Welsh but had exactly your situation with another european language. We were living in the country but were not fluent speakers ourselves. Our DCs were surrounded by people speaking the language. Their friends spoke it. They went to a native school. Watched TV in jt. We read them books in it. And they remained pretty hopeless at speaking it despite attending school from age 3 to 8. We ummed and aahed about what to do, taking them away from friends, all the glorious potential but the basic fact was my daughter (older child) was failing to thrive, miserable in lessons, not making the most of her potential etc. And we now now realise that languages just aren't really either of our DCs' strong suit, and neither DH nor I are great at them either. So we switched them both to English schools and they never looked back, cheerily waved goodbye to their friends, made squads of new ones and god the relief was TOTAL.

I would love for her to go to a billingual school have “have to the best of both worlds”

I would then be able to support her in her English studies and also she would still learn a level of welsh. This new school would provide that for her. Her current school is no English at all. When all she’s ever known is English.

I grew up in North Wales and went to Welsh medium schools. Whilst there were loads of people from Welsh-speaking households, many, like myself, came from families where literally nobody could speak it.

It was honestly never a problem. I think your DD will be absolutely fine staying where she is. However, I equally don't think it's problematic for her to move to a non-Welsh school if you want her to.

Thank you so much for your reply. This is what my original post was asking.

I understand how brilliant speaking languages is. We have tried and it’s showing that she may not be picking it up as well as we’d hoped. I don’t want to leave her and her then be behind in English when I could move her now and her thrive as your little ones have.

I am also not closing the door on welsh. There is so many opportunities for her to learn it as she gets older. It is compulsory to take it at GCSE she she will have to learn it anyway. But at least it will then be when she has grasped the English language fully, is more mature and it will be her own choice to continue it.

My sister started in a Welsh school age 10 with zero Welsh family or friends and by high school end she could hold a basic conversation. Ten years on she's taught her child basic Welsh despite living in the NW of England and barely speaking it anymore unless she visits Wales.

Stress very grateful that she had the chance to learn. It would have been ten times easier for her to have learned at 4-5 than at 10 right as she was about to go into senior school.

I also taught in a class with a child that came from an Eastern European country without a single word of English and to this day neither of his parents talk in English at any depth. Yet he was having basic conversations with class mates within a few months and pretty fluent within a year. Within two years his grammar had totally settled and he even had the local accent 😂. He was 7.

I think you should go with your gut and move her. She'll be happier if she understands the learning and can express herself in the classroom and (dare I say it) apart from government jobs within wales, there isn't much benefit to her to speaking welsh to justify the way she's feeling now

I am Welsh. Have lived in Wales 52 years.

Your child is very young and will make new friends so quickly at a new school.

My DD was a bit behind in English. She was neither where she should be in the European system, nor in the Uk system and now, aged 16, i would say she is still in all honesty a year behind at least because she missed some key foundational principles. It also meant she would not have been able to do the 11 plus (not that we were keen anyway). On the upside, she will do very well in the european language gcse and has the most fantastic accent. She sounds like the native that she is not!

Honestly, take the decision now. The pressure on the parents is also huge in trying to support the child and flailing around, quite frankly. We did our level best but we felt we were always coming up short, and that isn't a nice feeling either.

Absolutely move her now as your niggles are not going to go away.

When she comes home with reading books you won't be able to share these with her. Or read her creative writing or understand the nativity plays and all this. You are cutting yourself off from her world...

The new school will still teach her Welsh so it sounds perfect.

Do it now while there's time to make some friends so you can meet up over the summer and yes now is the perfect time. It's harder to make mum friends when you join a few years in but now is early enough.

Go for it. Do it now.

My kids have all done Welsh medium
and by Year 2 are fluent. We do not speak Welsh at home (although DH is a passable learner). It gives them more choice of secondary school, and where we are in NW Wales, the Welsh medium secondaries are much nicer environments for KS3 and 4. Much nicer. By a wide margin. It made it better for them to fit in everywhere - they could join URDD sports, etc.

My older kids have done very well in school and attending highly competitive universities. It is less comfortable for me in the early years but being bilingual has been great for them.

Oh my gosh. This post has really hit a nerve and made me cry. But is absolutely what I needed to hear so thank you.

I am already hating the fact that I can’t read her school books to her. But I never thought of further along when SHE starts writing stories etc you are completely right I will not be able to share this with her on any level!

I’ve attended a nativity where I didn’t follow any of it and also a sports day. You are completely right I felt completely isolated and not “part” of it at all.

You have hit the nail bang on the head. Thank you

Bilingualism is great but forced Bilingualism when it's truly not necessary is just going to cause your family more harm than good.

Most children in the UK do not go to a bilingual school so it isn't like they're missing out on say taking maths or something.

Absolutely just go with your gut here as you could be weighing it up all day.

Good luck.

Go visit the new school with her. Big it up talk about the nice new teacher and more friends rather than what she's leaving. Hopefully you can do it soon and within a few weeks she will be talking about new friends. Join the WhatsApp groups/make an effort with parents and all that and she will soon slot in.

That’s great your children done very well through the welsh mediums schools. Where I live in the south it’s abit tricker. If she was to be left in her welsh medium she has to then go to welsh secondary school. Even if she didn’t want to or was struggling. The state would insist she is then educated through welsh at secondary level. Which really concerns me as it will get even more harder.

its just a big gamble really that you hope will pay off. Leave her she maybe fine and muddle through but would she thrive? You know, it’s a hard decision to make and unfortunately it’s one that has to be made at a really young age.

This

It's absolutely not necessary to speak Welsh.
We all speak English in Wales.
Better to have a happy child that's not struggling and she gets to have an education.
And she may not want to stay living and working in Wales speaking Welsh anyway.
There is a big world out there.

Exactly this. It's clearly concerning you greatly and that's not surprising. There will be no negatives from her being educated through English but there could be if she struggles with the Welsh. You would never be able to help her with any schoolwork if she was educated through the medium of Welsh.
As in my previous post my children, who were brought up here and educated here in English medium schools and went to university here, have got excellent careers here and have never been required or even suggested that they would need to speak a word of Welsh in any job they've had and neither have their friends who are doctors, lawyers, teachers etc. I believe it's only if people want to work in some areas of local government or if for example you wanted to be a guide at st fagans museum you might need to speak Welsh. Who's to say they would stay in Wales for work anyway?

The Guide at St Fagans really made me laugh 😂

You know what everyone which the view of it not being necessary and supporting her going through her education is 100% right. I’m welsh and I went through English stream and it hasn’t effective my life in one bit. I’ve also never heard of someone not getting a job through not speaking welsh either.

The more I think about it. I think if I’m being completely honest with myself the reason I’m swaying back and fore is I feel guilty that I put her in there for a year and she could of done better in an English setting. I feel absolutely awful that I’ve put her through that for a year when she could of been comfortable in her English setting and making friends and now I have to put her through moving and her being the new girl on her own.

Seems like an absolutely mad choice of school when none of her family or friends can speak Welsh. You say you can't do it because it's too hard, so why throw your 5 year old into a school where everyone speaks to her and around her in a language she can't speak so she can't access an education?

I really don't get the logic of why you thought this school would be a good idea.

Oh god just move her.
It's pointless. It is literally only spoken in Wales.
It's not like teaching her French or Spanish which is is spoken in countries all over the world.
It's spoken in Wales where people also speak English.
Poor little thing.