Forced Bilingualism Welsh

[User1911]

Hi!
My DD5 is currently in a welsh stream school and has been for a year. We feel she hasn’t picked up as much as we had hoped, especially in comparison to her peers who come from welsh speaking homes.

We are an English speaking family no welsh at all spoken through any family member. No support available to her bar school.

We are considering moving her to a lovely English stream school. But she will be leaving a lot of good friends/mums. It’s a very hard decision to make but I really want to be able to support her fully in her education which I feel I cannot do at the moment.

I really do know all the benefits of bilingualism and that’s why we put her in a Welsh school.

But I’m looking for parents who decided against it and maybe switched over. Reasons why and how it worked out? Did you feel better making the switch and choosing just English?

Don't feel guilt OP
It's not too late to fix it.
She is so young and I doubt will remember much about this bit of school in the long run.
Don't beat yourself up.
It's not the end of the world.
Good luck
From a fellow English speaking Welsh woman who did alright for herself not speaking Welsh 😁

Don't beat yourself up. You tried it, with the very best of intentions, but if it doesn't feel right, move her now while she's still young enough to make new friends quickly. She'll be relieved, you'll be relieved, and you can still see her/your old friends for playdates etc. outside school.

Please don’t judge if you don’t live in rural(ish) Wales as I do.

There is ALOT of pressure to put your child in a Welsh school when you live in an area such as I do. So much so I live 10 mins away from 6 schools…ONE of these is English. The next nearest English is half hour away!

It’s really not that straight forward. Secondary school again we have ONE within 20mins which is English all others are welsh.

My child has not been unhappy in school. Reception is all about play and within her class her peers speak English. Being taught it has been predominately yes but sandwiched in with some English. So when playing they speak English BUT this will change in the coming year and she will be expected to speak in welsh at play. Hence making the decision to move her now, knowing she may not be able to as well as others.

There is really no need to try make me feel any worse than I do about the situation. I made decisions based on what I thought was right at the time and I am regretting it, I feel like the worst shitty parent as it is!

Thank you so much

Thank you. It’s an awfull feeling. But you’re right I can make this better.

I would love for her to go to a billingual school have “have to the best of both worlds” I would then be able to support her in her English studies and also she would still learn a level of welsh. This new school would provide that for her. Her current school is no English at all. When all she’s ever known is English. It sounds like a no-brainer. My kids are both bilingual in French and have only ever been educated in that language. My experience is that achieving bilingualism is much harder than it looks - those who say they are like little sponges are underplaying the efforts involved on all sides. I’m sure the level of Welsh she will learn in her bilingual school will be more than adequate - you may even be surprised to see how much she already knows. At that age she will soon make new friends and there’s no reason to lose touch with the old ones if they live nearby.

Are you in the North ?
I'm South Wales and close to the border of England so no pressure here really to speak Welsh. But I do understand its different in other parts.

Move her now to an English language school, before she gets closer to senior school.

You aren't Welsh. There is no long term value is learning Welsh. It won't help her with GCSEs, A'levels or a degree and the chances are in the long run she will move away.

You aren't Welsh. There is no long term value is learning Welsh

Don't be ridiculous. There are huge benefits to being bilingual that go far beyond just speaking a second language.

Op...have you spoken to the school about it? It's by no means unusual for no one at home to be able to speak Welsh, nor is it unusual for a 5 year old to be able to write sentences in Welsh or not be able to speak fluently. Children still usually end up fluent within the next couple of years.

I would speak to your dd's school first and go from there. And I'd be careful about believing the word of a 5 year old about never understanding a word in school. I think it's far more likely she knows more Welsh than she's aware of and will be responding/reacting to instructions given in Welsh without thinking.

If you do decide to move her, there's really no need to carry any guilt over it. I absolutely guarantee that her level of Welsh will be beyond that of most five year olds from English speaking homes who are in English language schools. So considering she'll be learning Welsh until 16 anyway, you'll have given her a fantastic start either way. And 5 year olds make friends so quickly, it's not a bad time to move them at all.

We are west wales x

She won’t learn much welsh at the other school. My sons have “studied” welsh since reception but it’s lip service really.

You don’t sound overly committed to Welsh so I’d take her out. Just don’t expect her to reach any kind of proficiency in the English language school.

She won’t learn much welsh at the other school. My sons have “studied” welsh since reception but it’s lip service really

Yes, this.

In primary she'll learn colours, numbers, animals, basic sentences. In Comp, a bit of expansion to be able to write a couple of paragraphs about basic things and hold a conversation on a (well learned) single subject at a time.

The main benefit is she'll probably have the ability to read and pronounce Welsh mainly correctly (read, not necessarily understand). Which will help massively if she chooses to actually 'learn' it in future.

I went to English medium schools. As a result my accent/pronunciation when reading Welsh is pretty good but I don't have any real understanding beyond the basics.

My DC go to a Welsh language school. Nobody in the family speaks Welsh. I’m the most advanced as I’ve been trying to learn using the Say Something in Welsh app, and I’ve been told that my pronunciation is good but I couldn’t hold a conversation in Welsh beyond the basics.

My DS was 5 when the pandemic hit and he was pulled out of school and we were expected to home school in Welsh. It was impossible and I did the tasks in English. The school were slow on setting up online classes and my poor DS went back to school after the lockdowns saying that he couldn’t speak any Welsh. So I know the fear you have. It took DS probably a year to become fluent after this and there were many times I thought about moving him.

My DD who is in year 2, had also started school reception and had none of the basic early interactions in Welsh. Neither of my children watched Welsh language tv programmes either.

That said, both my children are now bilingual. There is hope for you and your DD. I find Google translate camera very useful when my DC bring home their school reading books. It allows me to translate the book and then I ask DC to explain what each page means.

My DS is now in year 4 and both his languages are brilliant (including spelling) and he feels comfortable speaking/playing/learning in Welsh. My DD picked up the language well and her class is a much more ‘Welsh’ class where her friends would naturally prefer to speak Welsh over English, which has benefited her.

Ultimately this is a personal choice for you and your DD and you wouldn’t be wrong to move or not move her, but please don’t think that the window for learning the language has closed or will do soon, even with total immersion it takes a bit of time. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

If she was to be left in her welsh medium she has to then go to welsh secondary school. Even if she didn’t want to or was struggling. The state would insist she is then educated through welsh at secondary level.

What do you mean "the state would insist"? Where I am kids can change language stream without issues.

And yes to pp saying that Welsh taught as a second language is just lip service. At work we sometimes get work experience kids fresh off high school - the ones from English-medium schools can't even answer the phone in Welsh, let alone draft a document or deal with customers in the language of their choice. Fluency in a language you are not exposed to doesn't just happen by sitting through a couple of lessons a week. It might just be our area, mind.

I hope you can find a solution that works for you and your family, OP. Luckily it seems that you have a choice of schools around you. You should feel no guilt for doing what's best for your child.

If your child goes to a welsh stream primary they will not automatically get a place in English if you decided you wanted to swop over. They make it near impossible to change over. I’ve had friends going to appeals and tribunals over the fact the education board would not give them an English placement due to the fact they have been educated in welsh. They will only offer welsh placements due to you choosing a welsh primary at the start.

What do you need to do now? In England we contact the Education authority. Do you do that or the school direct?

Perhaps a bit different, but my DS hears both English and another language (not Welsh) at home. He completely favours English and won't speak or write the other language despite understanding everything which is said in it and hearing it from birth. However we've been advised this is totally normal, and it'll all level out in a few years so to stick at it.

Guess I'm just saying, if my 5 year old has been hearing two languages from day 1 and is still not speaking/reading/writing in both yet, then maybe there's still time for your DD to pick it up?

Key difference is you have both languages at home. The OP and her partner don't speak Welsh so her daughter's world will be completely foreign to her and her daughter has no frame of reference at home.

Not to a fluent standard

I went to a welsh medium school but come from a fully bilingual family.
we had some English speaking children join the school from nursery age. They muddled through somehow but it was a struggle for some. Meanwhile some of my welsh speaking peers really struggled with English further down the line.

having now supported my kids through primary school I realise how bloody near impossible it would have been for those English speaking families to fully support their kids with their education.
I know that learning welsh as an adult is no joke.

i’d move her sooner rather than later. And I’m hugely supportive of kids in wales learning welsh. She will do anyway, but through the medium of English which will be easier for her.

I am in west wales and felt no pressure to send dc to welsh language primary school but we did. Ds started age 9 and was fluent in 12 months, younger ds started in meithrin and did all his primary schooling through welsh and majority of his year group were first language welsh. We do not speak welsh. She is still really young and it will become natural to her. We did support watching S4C and did it together and found the school really supportive when they knew we were supportive. Now they are older they really value their welsh language. Both went into the English stream for secondary and did not go to the Welsh language school.

My DD has been in school for a full year now in a welsh setting. My best friends DD is in an English setting (the primary school I went too) They are on par with the welsh they understand and speak. I think that also speaks volumes.

I have had another chat with her tonight and she wants to move. It’s so hard as she is so small and they are not old enough to know what they really want with a full understanding of what it will entail.

DD can with me when I viewed the school so knows about it already. I have today emailed the school to see if she can go for a little tester morning before 100% committing. I think if that visit goes well we will both feel far more confident in making the move over.

I also want to add. The current school she is in are not very supoortive. It’s a very much you and them feel. Her teacher I find very stand offish.

When ever I have talked to her about niggles or concerns she is VERY defensive of anything.

The school isnt very warm or welcoming. The teacher barely notice the kids running in each morning and barely look up from their conversations, this is a huge big bear of mine!

The new school is so nurturing, from the moment I went in I felt welcome and that they really cared. Each teacher I met (and I met them all) made a huge fuss of my daughter.

So collectively hasn’t helped the situation either.

Oh it sounds perfect. Go for it and embrace it. 😍.

Don't feel guilty just keep reminding yourself you're doing the best thing for her.

The new school sounds much, much nicer. I hope it works out for her. Let us know!