Are teachers held to account if children aren't meeting their targets?

[AbsolutelyEmma]

This isn't a teacher bashing thread in any way.

But if a large percentage of a class aren't meeting expected levels have slipped behind is there any accountability?

Ohhhhh yes

But itsrelated to expected progress as well
So if most of the class come in very low, then that is relevant

Huge pressure on schools to get results, teachers have annual targets and can be stopped from pay progression and will be closely monitored and expected to improve if children aren’t making progress.

You also have to bear in mind the composition of the class. If a lot of time is taken up dealjng with challenging behaviour, it is almost impossible to get children to make expected progress. And it is incredibly ly frustrating for the teacher.

As I say honestly not a teacher bashing thread.

I'm a bit concerned that a lot of hard work is being undone by a very nice but maybe not very effective teacher.

The behaviour of some children in the class is terrible too and I don't envy the teacher.

This is of course possible - some teachers are not brilliantly effective, just like in any profession. Every half term, the teacher will be having conversations with the senior leadership team abojt the progress of the pupils and be expected to justify and provide plans to support those bot making prprogress. Sometimes, this doesn't have much genuine impact, but the teacher would be on their radar if there is an ongoing lack of progress. That said, very challenging behaviour can totally ruin any chance of effective teaching sadly, no matter how good the teacher.

Oh definitely, believe me they are. It's a private matter between the relevant school staff though (headteacher, governors and the teacher in question, probably other members of SLT too). It's not even the business of their other colleges, let alone the parents, so don't expect to ever find out if this is the case.

Things to consider though:-

• As a parent, you only truly know the ability and targets of your own child. Ignore hearsay from other parents. Chinese whispers are never helpful.
• Cohorts vary wildly in terms of ability. A low attaining class doesn't necessarily mean a poor teacher. They may be making great progress but performing at a lower level in general to the previous cohort.
• Even if children are missing their targets, this can sometimes be a result of poor/inaccurate target setting from the previous teacher. I've been that teacher in the past whose class come up to Year 1 with ridiculous inflated targets based on inaccurate assessments in Reception. As an experienced Reception teacher I was very was aware, based on how they presented at the start of Year 1, that there was no way some of the children I inherited that year had actually achieved the Early Learning Goal in writing. It wasn't necessarily the fault of the previous (inexperienced) teacher either. I knew they were being pressured by SLT to inflate the data. It's not a nice situation to be in. Ultimately I walked as there was no way I could ever get all those children to the expected level for the end of Year 1 when they hadn't technically made it in Reception, even though the data suggested they had. I certainly wasn't prepared to lie by fudging the data myself too.

Basically what I'm saying is that i this teacher is underperforming it will be noted, monitored and dealt with privately, but it's unfair to assume that they're a poor teacher based on the little information you as a parent has.

In short, yes.

BUT that depends on the leadership skills at the school also. So it is nuanced.

Under good management and guidance, poor performance can unquestionably be improved.

For context. My child has been 'behind' wts in maths, reading and writing since reception. I got called in for a chat early on in reception, then Covid happened.

Once back in school dc started to make very good progress indeed and by the end of year 3 and beginning of year 4 was at expected levels. The year 3 teacher said that this was down to sheer hard work from dc who is a model pupi (teachers words).

I really like the year 4 teacher but dc has now slipped back to wts. The teacher didn't have much to say other than they're not worried and dc is capable 🤷‍♀️

We could see the sheet and most of the class at a glance were at below or wts apart from a handful.

So this might actually be the teachers not using wts and expected consistently. Some schools will put all children at wts until they have covered all the curriculum. Some will judge it based on their grasp of what has been covered. There should be a whole school approach, but sometimes it can be a bit woolly. If the teacher is not concerned and says they are sure that your child will get there by the end of the year, I would assume it may be them doing the former. But you can ask for clarification. Are you concerned about progress from what you have seen at home, or is it just this that is worrying you?

I'd like to think not as one of mine spent her school days arsing around and doing the bare minimum. The teachers couldn't have tried harder with her, it was very embarrassing. I would hate to think they'd be in trouble about it.

She did have an epiphany when she left and emailed a few of them and apologised.

Thankless job.

@Depressedbarbie they do assessments at the end of each term and a score has to be met to be meeting expected levels.

DCs score had dropped from year 3 and the beginning of year 4.

I'm pretty sure the teacher said it's because they've forgotten things covered in year 3.

So it's quite hard to know. Is it the same assessment each time, and they should just be able to do more of it each time? Or is it a different assessment for each year group, or even each term of each year group? (More likely) If it's the former, then that would be a bit concerning, but I'd want to know more. If it's the second one, then it could be that the questions are harder and she needs to get used to a harder style of questions, or it could be that she's found the work covered in year 4 harder, or it could be that they haven't covered as much of the work as they should - there are a lot of different reasons, and you would need to discuss with the teacher. The questions I would ask, as a teacher myself, would be a) is this test just on what wevecoverrd thuis year, or is it testing everything covered at school so far? b) are there any specific topics that my child didn't do well in, so I can do some work with her at home?

Oh I wish. Teachers are held entirely responsible for their classes' progress and their pay depends on it. While I think it is important that teachers are held accountable for the quality of their teaching, I think it is far too much responsibility on teachers and far too little on pupils and their families.

It's completely normal for children to be working towards the expected end of year standards in March. They haven't covered all the learning yet.

Stop nosing at data that doesn't concern you and using it to make an assumption the teacher is underperforming. This data should not have been visible to you, that's a schoolboy error on her part, but you've interpreted it in the wrong way because you don't understand what it means.

The fact she said she's not worried about your child suggests they're on track to achieve expected by the end of the year.

The behaviour of some children in the class is terrible too and I don't envy the teacher.

Perhaps this stops the teacher being able to actively teach.

I do agree with most of what you say, and the op certainly shouldn't be making any assumptions, or basing things on other children's data. However, if she is concerned about her child, I think it is fair to want to find out more. I have worked with teachers who were not great at assessing children's attainment and progress, and have got it quite wrong. Op don't assume that the teacher is poor, but it's fine to ask questions to get greater clarity about your child and I would be welcoming if a parent did that.

@BoleynMemories13 I wasn't 'nosing'. There was a sheet with data for the whole class on a list and our dc highlighted.

It was bright green where targets were met and red were not. You literally couldn't not see.

Thanks @Depressedbarbie for all of the advice. I did try to extract the meaning of the assessments as in whether all topics hadn't been covered or whether it was actually a slip in marks but the teacher said it might be because they'd forgotten what they'd learnt in year 3.

It did all feel quite negative but the teacher did say they thought dc would 'be ok'.

I'm just a bit concerned as we have Ben doing so much at home. I'm certainly not wanting the teachers head on a plate. As I've said I really like the teacher and so does dc.

I suppose what I'm asking is that if there is a bit of a problem with children falling behind should it be picked up on behind the scenes and plans put in place.

Ideally, yes, it would be picked up and things put in place. But teachers are human and sometimes it just isn't possible to do the ideal. We have an awful lot on our plates. I think your best approach is to ask to have a chat with the teacher without the time pressure of parents evening. You can phrase it as a collaborative thjng and just wanting to find out exactly what your child is struggling in and how you could support them. Most teachers would far rather see and talk with a parent than have then worrying. Frankly I'm thrilled when a parent takes an active interest in how their child is doing.

Are you saying that at the end of the autumn term DC wasn't meeting the targets or is it the end of the spring term targets? Or are these end of year targets that DC hasn't met yet?

Where does the teacher expect her to be at the end of year? I wouldn’t expect a child to have meet their end of year target at only half way through the year. What are they putting into place to help them reach expected progress?

Progress isn’t linear. Your child has progressed slowly and then achieved a big jump, it maybe that they will continual along their usual curve of achievement.

Well that's the but I don't understand and I know that the teacher is the one to answer. I did try to get the info but didn't really get the answer or didn't understand.

So every year my dc has always finished the year (Summer term) working towards. But in year 3 finished Summer term having met the targets for the first time ever.

At the beginning of year 4 (end of Autumn term), dc was still meeting the targets, but now (end of Spring) dc is back at working towards.

I understand what people are saying about not meeting the targets as they've not reached the end of the school year, but I'm a bit worried she was meeting targets last term but now isn't.

We've been doing a lot at home too so it's disheartening.

The targets btw are scoring a certain amount in assessments.

DD had impaired hearing in reception (diagnosed by audiology). When the school should have done was contacted the hearing impairment team and the LA then the my DD would have received support from a Teacher of the Deaf for a year (at no cost to the school). I get the impression that the school was not concerned that she didn’t meet the early learning goals at the end of reception (as they did sod all to support her). Now her hearing is fixed they can presumably show progress at the end of KS1 and to keep Ofsted and the DfE happy!

Is this in all the assessments or just some? You say you've been doing a lot of work at home but maybe it's not in those areas she'd benefit the most from.

You're a supportive parent so could you ask for more details of the assessment outcomes ie which areas is she weakest on? Is she on track with phonics, spelling, reading, handwriting, number and place value, measurement and time etc?

Your support would be best placed in those areas she's struggling with but you can't do that unless you know what they are.