Is this normal for residential school trips?

[sheflieswithherownwings]

My DC doesn't have a place on the year 5 school residential (not because they didn't want to go but mainly due to poor communication from the school and the fact that they are relatively new to the school but has been there since last September). Apparently there is a waiting list and it was basically first come first served.. but obviously a large majority of the year group will be going.

AIBU to think that if the school offers a residential trip you find somewhere suitable so that ALL children who want to go, can go. This is for a Year 5 4-night trip in May, during term time.

So now they will be stuck (and expected to be in school, in school uniform, while all their friends are off having a great time and they'll probably be doing worksheets in a year 6 class). How can the school think this is okay and fair? It's different if the child doesn't want to go - they should definitely have that option.

But to essentially exclude a group of kids from an amazing experience, that their friends will be talking about for weeks afterwards, because the parents can't afford it or because they were a bit too late in signing up, seems very wrong to me. Apparently, the system is the same in year 6 - ie, limited numbers and not all children who want to go will be able to (for context, we have been living overseas for a few years and this type of situation would never have occurred at DCs school there as it would have been considered inequitable - all children would have been given / offered a place, and their place paid for if needed).

Anyone able to let me know whether this is a normal approach to residential trips in English schools?

DC is year 5 and is going on a residential just after half term. It's a 2 form entry and I think about 30 kids are going. Unfortunately it's not cheap- but sounds amazing- there is a subsidy for PP children (and I suspect there might be a bit more of a subsidy for children the school thinks would really benefit). We don't have the sort of school where PTA can raise £££. It's a shame but costs have gone up loads and the ability of people to pay has gone down so it might be that or not at all.

However, on your question on the kids who don't go- neither of the year 5 teachers are going; it's the deputy head, senco and a couple of HLTAs. So the kids who don't go will have normal lessons plus have at least 1 fun trip planned I think.

(And yes also agree with the comment that some families wouldn't want to go/would find it an alien concept, so am not sure they would get 100% take up).

No that’s not normal, that’s really bad. I would expect any child who wants to go can go. That’s very bad planning on the school’s part to have a limit.

They limit places because the price is based on that - book 150 places but only 120 go then school has to pay the extra

I was going to say that's poor but it's a 5 form entry? So 150 kids per year?
I would think that's a challenge unless they can split it across several weeks.
My most recent primary school child, year 5 did camping on the school field which was fabulous, cheap as people just used tents they had. Parents came along in the afternoon to help set up.
Year 6 pgl thing on the Isle of Wight. Every child went

I agree with the poster above. Unless the schedule for kids staying behind sounds enjoyable and out-of-the-ordinary, I'd be taking advantage of everyone else being away to book an off-peak holiday somewhere fun and feeling no guilt.

I've just realised you said 5 form entry. 5 form is massive and, as many have since said, they're highly unlikely to find anywhere to accommodate that many kids in one go. Even if they did, they'd really struggle to staff it as ratios will be higher than a regular school day where 1 teacher can have 30 Year 5 kids to themselves without a TA. They'll need far less staff for those they're leaving behind than they would need to take with them.

Staff volunteer their extra time for free. They only get paid their usual hours despite being on duty 24 hours a day, in loco parentis. It's a huge responsibility and not one everyone will be willing to take on. Not every member of staff can even consider it, if they are a single parent themselves for example. Many will have to pay out extra childcare fees than usual if they do go. I'm sorry but your suggestion that they run the trip twice just isn't feasible.

I'm not sure how many out of the approx 150 year 5s have not been allocated places - I will check. If it's only one third to one half of the year group who are able to go (due to space limitations) then I would maybe be a bit more understanding although there would then be an awful lot of year 5 children left in school that week. This is not the impression that I have been given though and I'm pretty sure that if only 40-60 children were able to go there would be a lot more push back from parents (as going on a school residential trip has become more and more of an expectation in recent years). Equally they would surely then have to provide an activity for another 60-plus children in the local area, such as an outdoor activity centre, which costs money (assuming they are not made to do normal timetabled lessons) and this hasn't been mentioned at all.

5 form entry? Wow. DC are at a tiny village primary with less than 50 pupils in the whole school! On the plus side all KS2 children go on the week-long residential every year; Yr3-6.

More than accomodation and activities, it might be linked to staffing issues. Not every teacher wants or can go away for 4 days, and residential trips come with their own little dramas. It is also a big responsibility for the teachers so many refuse to go.

You have to speak with the school. But a 5 form entry is massive.

Who knows what the history of this is. A year 5 trip and a year 6 trip. Neither trip taking the full year, just doesn't sound right.

It would make more sense to run two year 6 trips making sure all kids who want to got to go on it.
Or maybe the system is those who miss out in year 5 get priority for the year 6 trip.

You'll only know by asking.

Someone up thread says their Scottish School fund raise for the trip. I can say I'm also Scotland the P7 (last year of primary) fund raise for their school party 🥳 but not for the P7 trip, that is organised and paid for during their P6 year. I think the school might be able to assist children who's parents can't afford it, but they don't fund raise for it.

Thinking about it, there might not be many venues set up to take 150 10 year olds. Mine were in a 3 form entry a d that’s quite large already

its possible that the school pre covid had found such a large site but lots of holiday camps etc went bust in covid for Lack of custom and they may have only been able to source a smaller trip

Yes this happens and is quite unbelievable to be honest. In my case the trip announced is a lottery draw and about 50% of students get to go on it. Work within your means in terms of staffing or cost or whatever - a trip for no-one or a trip for everyone. He didn't get picked so he is allowed the week off school by myself and am seeing the same with other parents. Way to cause division between students.

That sounds really crap OP especially if as you believe it is a large majority who go.

If it’s more like a third of the year, then a bit more justifiable but still seems poor for it to depend on first come first served and thus for new joiners to have no chance.

It is a massive year but could be staggered surely. We have a school trip that is split into two halves, one lot go one week, one the next. And more classes ought to mean there are also more staff.

I think it's a school that would be better dropping the trip for one of the year groups.

Do the Yr 6 trip in two halves rather than disappointing half the Yr5s and half the Yr 6s

If the majority have places, there's chance that someone will drop out through illness. Would your dc take the place if offered at the last minute ?

@NCTDN no they would not.

I don't understand the comments about a 5 form entry not having enough staff to split it across 2 dates. A large school will not only have more teachers but much greater slack in terms of staff than a small school. In a small school (by which I mean half form entry or smaller) the teachers really can't refuse to go unless they accept no residentials will go ahead at all.

Teachers can refuse to go and often do

@sheflieswithherownwings It’s a great shame they don’t offer it to all. I see a 5 form entry school as having many benefits but this seems such a poorly organised situation.

For what it’s worth, I’ve been a governor of a school where virtually no one could afford a residential so there were trips spaced out over y5 and y6. Just not residential.

Another school where I was a governor did y6 after sats. 2 form entry school and the vast majority went. It was a trip linked to the geography curriculum so others covered the curriculum in school and as it was only a handful of dc who didn’t go they didn’t get fun trips out.

The school DD1 was at did similar. The vast majority went but it was split into two groups. I’m grateful that teachers could be bothered but everyone who wanted to go was able to. Hardly any didn’t.

What the common theme is: one residential for all children. I would suggest you ask the head that dc who have been prevented from going in y5, get priority for y6. However I think they should revise their strategy to do one residential with lots of notice to save up.

Wouldn't have happened at dc primary. Nobody got left behind and the school even offered financial aid to those who couldn't afford it. It was a small school, I get that this wouldn't be possible in larger schools.

At secondary I think it's different and there are lots of trips that kids can opt in and out of and it's clearly a much bigger year group. But to exclude just one or two kids from a primary residential is cruel and will make them stick out like a sore thumb. I would discuss with the school and see if there's any movement, they may have just assumed your dc didn't want to go with being relatively new. If not, I wouldn't be sending them in that week as they will be isolated, miserable and not learning properly.

From my experience of working in very small schools though, this is unusual. It's much harder to say no if children won't go on residential for 2 or 3 or 4 years if you won't go.

It may be unusual but they absolutely have the right to refuse.

Yes I know; I'm sure you can tell from my posts that I'm a teacher.

I’ve always been grateful for teachers going and no one refused because they actually valued the trips for the children. Sometimes the heads went.