Is this normal for residential school trips?

[sheflieswithherownwings]

My DC doesn't have a place on the year 5 school residential (not because they didn't want to go but mainly due to poor communication from the school and the fact that they are relatively new to the school but has been there since last September). Apparently there is a waiting list and it was basically first come first served.. but obviously a large majority of the year group will be going.

AIBU to think that if the school offers a residential trip you find somewhere suitable so that ALL children who want to go, can go. This is for a Year 5 4-night trip in May, during term time.

So now they will be stuck (and expected to be in school, in school uniform, while all their friends are off having a great time and they'll probably be doing worksheets in a year 6 class). How can the school think this is okay and fair? It's different if the child doesn't want to go - they should definitely have that option.

But to essentially exclude a group of kids from an amazing experience, that their friends will be talking about for weeks afterwards, because the parents can't afford it or because they were a bit too late in signing up, seems very wrong to me. Apparently, the system is the same in year 6 - ie, limited numbers and not all children who want to go will be able to (for context, we have been living overseas for a few years and this type of situation would never have occurred at DCs school there as it would have been considered inequitable - all children would have been given / offered a place, and their place paid for if needed).

Anyone able to let me know whether this is a normal approach to residential trips in English schools?

In what way was the school communication poor?

That’s really crappy of them. Yes, they should find somewhere with space for everyone!

Tbh I think having limited spaces stops kids who's parents can't afford it from sticking out like a sore thumb. Schools have limited budgets and can't be expected to pay for places. If you didn't get your form in on time, then that is a parent issue. Remember, the teachers who take the kids on residential do it out of their own time. And work stupidly hard on the trips dealing with a group of over excited children. I certainly wouldnt want to do it. Large groups don't always work due to staffing etc. So they may have to limit places for that.

Our school does first come first served. I don't arrange them myself, but I imagine it would be more expensive per child if they booked a place for 90 and then only 50 wanted to go?

Are you sure they will be doing worksheets in a year 6 class? In our school, the teachers who have the remaining children plan some lovely, fun activities. Doesn't stop it being upsetting for your child though, I'm sorry.

This is normal at secondary school but I haven’t experienced that at primary. Trips would include all.

That doesn't sound great.

My dcs primary school residential trips had space for all kids to go.

Most went but a few chose not to. For the children who stayed behind at school, the school organised loads of day trips and fun activities like cinema trips, bowling, baking etc.

Not normal in my experience at primary. I’ve always known them go out of their way to make sure everyone is included.

Wouldn’t happen here in Scotland. The class do fundraising through the year for their camp experience and it’s considered a key part of their personal development. All who want to can go.

Wouldn't happen at our primary either - there would be places for all those who want to go (funded if needed)

It wouldn't happen at my school either. If a pupil wanted to go, then we would do everything we could to make sure it happend.

How many pupils are there compared to how many places are available?

I've worked in school admin for a few years. The school has to book and pay for places early. Sometimes the previous year. If your child has joined the school recently then there might not be a space. I do think this is tough.....however the school can't book extra spaces just jn case.
Sometimes children booked on the trip leave and you will get a space. Sometime admin can work it so there is space but it depends on lots of things.....how many kids on the coach, how many beds, how many staff attending etc etc.
It's tough but your child will not be the only one not going. And unfortunately it's just the way it is.

How big is the school? DS’s Primary school was one form entry and school trips were offered to everyone in the class

Dds school is three form entry and everyone who wants to go on the residential can go.
The children who don’t want to go for whatever reason have a week of fun activities at school instead.

Thanks for the replies - sounds like a lot of schools do try to make sure all children are included who want to go. I agree it's such a huge part of their learning experience that I'm surprised they don't make every effort to make it available to all.

To be fair, it is a big school with a five form entry. However, I feel like this should be taken into account when booking something that is able to include all children.

@Stressfordays it wasn't about not getting our form in on time - we weren't told about the trip, and have had some issues with parentmail and not receiving some important emails / information. DC has been at the school since September. Not our fault at all.

I don't know exactly what they'll be doing .. I hope they do have some fun trips out, but I'm not holding my breath as I assume most of the teachers who can take them anywhere will either be on the school trip or teaching themselves. And it's not a whole lot of fun if your friendship group are all on the trip.

I've got one at secondary who's going on a trip in March and that was first come first served but there are 200+ in the year so at least half won't be going. Presumably it's difficult or impossible to find a suitable location for that number. Or enough teaching staff to run the trip ratio-wise in their own time (it's over a weekend).

However at their primary where our younger one is every child is able to go and there was a note on the letter saying something like please see the head in confidence if the cost is an issue as we want everyone to be able to go. OP I'd be quite cross if I were in your shoes. At primary level I strongly feel it's everyone goes or no one goes (unless the parents are determined not to let their child go but I've never heard of this happening). My children have both been so excited about their trips. They all talk about them for ages beforehand and after - the build up and the stories afterwards are almost as important as the trip itself.

When mine were at school it was normally kids who didn't want to go or couldn't afford to go who were left behind but they did do fun stuff. Day trips on school minibus to nice places. We live by the sea and lots of things on offer that also cater for the tourist trade so fun stuff to do without long distances.

One year there were more children wanting to go than there were places. Meeting called and we were informed we could vote and have limited places for advertised cost or another coach hired and higher cost per child. They were going to France. The vote was unanimous for all going, the school then sold spare seats on the coach to parents who fancied a few days in France and the cost difference ended up being very low.

That's terrible

I think they should ensure that all children who want to go on a residential get the chance over a couple of years. So if there are some who don't go in Year 5, they should get first priority for the Year 6 trip. I think for staffing and costs etc it probably isn't feasible to take a whole year group in most cases, but then those children who don't go should have the chance another time. If the trip 'system' at your school is not set up to guarantee that the children who miss out in Year 5 get first choice for a place in Year 6 then I would definitely be speaking to the school about how this is unfair.

I had something similar with my son. Their school had a Year 6 trip offered to all, but quite a few families didn't want to/couldn't afford to send their children so then the remaining places were taken up by Year 5. My son wanted to go in Year 5 but I said no, go in Year 6 when more of your friends will be going. Towards the end of Year 5 I realised we hadn't had a letter yet about trip next year so I asked a teacher if they were coming out this year or not til the beginning of Year 6. I was told they'd been given out weeks ago and all the places were filled, including by children who were currently in Year 4. My son was adamant he had never received a letter and I knew that he was really looking forward to the trip so would have definitely given me a letter if he'd had one. On further investigation it appeared the letters must have been given out on a day when the class had a supply teacher and a group of children had been taken out to do something elsewhere, as none of that group had had the letters. I spoke to the head and said it really wasn't fair that the Year 6 trip was now excluding Year 6 children who wanted to go, as it had been the school's fault they hadn't got the opportunity. Anyway, eventually I got a phone call to say a place had been found for him. But then sadly Covid hit so none of them got to go!

At primary school there's place for everyone who wants to go, but there's usually about 25 who don't want to ( out if 3 classes in the year) and they do fun related activities.
At DS's high school places were limited to 60 ish which I suspect is the number they can fit on one coach with accompanying adults.

If you didn't know about the trip it very much sounds to me like it was booked and information sent out before your son even joined. It's sad he's missing out, but they can't be expected to book extra places on the off chance some new children join in the meantime. They could still have several new children who join between now and May. They can't all be magiced a place on a trip likely booked up to a year in advance.

As for schools paying for those who can't afford it, times have changed I'm afraid. School budgets are so tight, transport costs are going up and up. Whereas in the past schools may have had 3 or 4 families requiring financial support to attend a residential, they're now likely to have 20+ who are priced out due to the cost of living crisis. Schools simply cannot pay for all of them.

I think limiting numbers will become a more common thing going forward as it doesn't draw attention to those who can't afford it. If a third of children (for example) staying behind, nobody stands out. It also means fun activities can be planned for them all, as they're more likely to be kept together as a group for the week, rather than a couple of children being left behind and having to join up with another class.

I'm sure he'll spend the week playing lots of sports, doing lots of drama, music etc, doing a large scale art project and other interesting research projects, maybe some community volunteer work. He'll also have the opportunity to make new friends. Yes it's sad he's missing out on the residential but I highly doubt he'll be doing worksheets all week.

Typically residential trips are reserved a year ahead so it might be that they signed up before you joined. I agree it's poor communication that you weren't told on joining about iit, but it seems there wasn't enough spaces for all anyone, more than likely due to the large school size (3 form entry is still large, many are 2 or 1)

I thought the law stated educational trips could not exclude those children who parents couldn't afford it! It's during term time so ALL children should have the opportunity to go at Primary level.

DC's school allowed everyone who wanted to go on the residential. They offer spaces to other year groups if there is some left over.
There were 130 in DD's year, so this shouldn't be a big school issue.

The children that didn't go on the residential did "fun" local trips and activities.

The school where I worked always had a small group of kids who didn't want to go on the year 6 residential trip ( or their parents were not confident to let them.) Unlike your situation, all the children were able to go if they wanted to.

The small group left behind had lots of similar activities locally. So any craft type activities were replicated in school, lots of the physical stuff was similar too- e.g. kids went to a local outward bound centre for climbing wall, ropes etc. Orienteering was done in the local woods. That way, the children had similar things to write about in their project books for follow up when they all returned.

There was always staff available who didn't go on the trip to cover this.

It would be a very poor show for a school to simply dump a child in another class with worksheets for a week!

I work in a primary school, we have a residential for 2 nights in year 4 and 4 nights in year 6. We're a 4 form entry so a big school as well. We ensure that we can take the whole year group. With the year 4 we have gone in two groups so Mon-Wed then Wed-Fri when we had a huge year group (29 in each class).
The school should be offering to all.