Is this normal for residential school trips?

[sheflieswithherownwings]

My DC doesn't have a place on the year 5 school residential (not because they didn't want to go but mainly due to poor communication from the school and the fact that they are relatively new to the school but has been there since last September). Apparently there is a waiting list and it was basically first come first served.. but obviously a large majority of the year group will be going.

AIBU to think that if the school offers a residential trip you find somewhere suitable so that ALL children who want to go, can go. This is for a Year 5 4-night trip in May, during term time.

So now they will be stuck (and expected to be in school, in school uniform, while all their friends are off having a great time and they'll probably be doing worksheets in a year 6 class). How can the school think this is okay and fair? It's different if the child doesn't want to go - they should definitely have that option.

But to essentially exclude a group of kids from an amazing experience, that their friends will be talking about for weeks afterwards, because the parents can't afford it or because they were a bit too late in signing up, seems very wrong to me. Apparently, the system is the same in year 6 - ie, limited numbers and not all children who want to go will be able to (for context, we have been living overseas for a few years and this type of situation would never have occurred at DCs school there as it would have been considered inequitable - all children would have been given / offered a place, and their place paid for if needed).

Anyone able to let me know whether this is a normal approach to residential trips in English schools?

That's good to hear @Ewock as you're a large primary. Well done. My children's is a one form entry and does the same - 2 nights in Y4, 4 nights in Y6 - and I've never heard of anyone not going. The school letters/ emails have always said (for any paid for trip) please speak to the head in confidence if you can't meet the cost, we don't want anyone to miss out.

@AmyandPhilipfan that's terrible, but good that they managed to find a place for him. But it shows how children can end up missing out through no fault of the parents. I have asked about prioritising those on the waiting list now for the year 6 residential as there was a comment along the lines of hopefully they'll get to go on the one next year! Which I wasn't too impressed with.

@Ewock it's good to know that it can be done with larger schools and that this shouldn't be a reason for limiting numbers.

For those families who can't afford it, surely more effort should be made to make this possible as these are likely to be the children who will benefit the most. And this is where PTO fundraising could make a huge difference.

I will ask what the schedule is likely to be for those left behind. I have a feeling though that the majority of children will be on the residential.

@BoleynMemories13 I suppose I would like to think that there would be a focus on including every child (rather than trying to disguise the fact that there are children whose parent's can't afford it).

To be honest, in our area, it's not just that it's unaffordable for some families, it's that it's a totally alien concept to go away somewhere. We have families who never leave our city, so they don't want their child going out to the countryside miles away. It's quite sad for the children though and then the cycle repeats because then they're less likely to send their children on school residential trips.

This actually makes me less annoyed about the communication from DS' school, we get parent pay email, FB duplication of the same info and a WhatsApp broadcast, plus posters and reminders on the classroom door. I did find the duplication highly irritating but at least we wouldn't miss anything like this.

Residential trips are not included.

That’s terrible. I’d be furious. I tend to get quite overprotective when it comes to my child’s feelings…
as its term time, it’ll be cheap as chips to rent a caravan by the sea and I’d be doing that and inviting a couple of the other not going kids and let them have a ball and live on chips and icecream for a few days by the sea and mooch about the arcades.
id try and make sure they had a better time than the school party.
im petty like that though.

In my dc primary school, there are places for the whole year group (y5 &y6) residential trips. They are in a small school year, though. There's only one class per year. My other dc is in secondary school. I think there's about 200 children per year. They recently had a residential, but I think there were just over 40 places, so a lot didn't go.

Yes absolutely - all should be able to go! Wherever my kids went there were other school groups so there was room.

If the school isn't confident that all parents will be able to afford the trip and can't afford to subsidise it, then it shouldn't be running it. OP hs made it clear that she wasn't told about the trip so couldn't have got the form in.

If large groups don't work, then they should arrange a number of smaller group trips. The bottom line is that the school shouldn't discriminate against a group of pupils on any basis: if they are saying this trip is worth doing, then it is worth doing for all the pupils.

If its any consolation OP, the week that the rest of my class went on the residential and I was put in the back of another class for the week was the best week of primary school. I got to do my own research project, and allowed to take myself off to the library whenever I wanted to to do my research, and got to help with the reception class when I wanted to (which I enjoyed so much I carried on doing it even after my class got back)

"I suppose I would like to think that there would be a focus on including every child (rather than trying to disguise the fact that there are children whose parent's can't afford it)."

@sheflieswithherownwings that sounds wonderful in an ideal world but how do you propose the school ensure every child can go if a third simply can't afford it in a cost of living crisis? Schools simply cannot fund the amount of children whose families would require financial support these days. Times have changed. Many families can no longer afford such luxuries and schools certainly can't afford to sub that many on extremely tight budgets.

I don't think you're being realistic I'm afraid. It's all very well saying schools should include those who can't afford it but I'd love for you to explain how.

All the trips for my dd have been on a first come first served basis. Some domestic and some international. They keep track so that each child gets to go on at least one domestic and one international while at the school.

It is a middle school but this is true for years 5, 6 too.

@butteredcrumpetsandjam that's certainly an option I'll be considering if I find out they don't have much planned for those staying behind 😀

@SgtJuneAckland it sounds like your school is very aware of the need sometimes to over-communicate! Unfortunately we've had quite a few issues with poor communication from the school - or using multiple channels inconsistently to communicate different things. Their previous school (not in the UK) was really good at clear communication and they made it look easy! So I think my expectations have been skewed.

We have an overnight trip in Y4, a two night in Y5 and a four night in Y6.

Y6 letters go out on 1 July asking for expressions of interest where we give an approx cost. The cost is confirmed at the start of Sep and the non-refundable deposit has to be paid by 30 Sept, and then monthly payments after that. We've done that to give parents a chance to save/pay over a year because it's so bloody expensive these days.

We have to confirm numbers to the provider by 30 Oct and the cost is set at that point - if anyone drops out after that school has to fund the place.

We have 30 in the year group. If 17 or fewer say they want to go then we can use the minibus and it's cheaper overall. If more than that go, the £1K cost of the coach has to be split between those that are going so it's a more expensive trip. So tbh latecomers would depend on that. This year we wouldn't be able to add anyone at this stage, last year we would have.

That wouldn’t have happened at our primary. Secondary is different as there’s often dc selected for trips (eg dd1 is going on a science trip this month with 20 out of 200 dc) or the ski trip which about 1/3 of the year group went on.

really appalling at primary and in your situation I think I’d take time off work and take dc to a theme park or something (I’m usually very supportive of schools but this is not okay in my mind).

5 form entry so approx 150 kids ? You’ll struggle to find somewhere that can accommodate that many. Prices are set depending on the number of places - if they book 150 places and don’t fill them they’ll be charged more. Giving a place to all is well and good in theory but won’t happen in practice. PP money can cover part of the cost but not all.
There will be reasons for the set number of places.

@Crackoncrackerjack I agree it's a lot of kids to find places for, but there could be other options such as splitting the group into 2, and taking group A for the first half of the week and group b for the second. If they have extra spaces they are struggling to fill, they could offer to other year groups, as another PP's school does.

I wonder if, in past years, they have only ever had, say, 110-120 of the 150 go, and therefore they now go for a 125 child option, but unluckily this year there are 130 who want to go

(or similar)

As others have said, if the cost for accommodation and travel for 150 is divided by 120 instead of 150 (Say) it will all end up more pricey.

Really rubbish. Has never happened at a school I've worked at and we always tell new starters about trips they've missed the initial letter for. I've just changed our current residential to a new centre and it wouldn't have occurred to me to consider anywhere that couldn't accommodate the whole class.

We are in a similar situation. In previous years all children from year 5 and 6 went on the residential but this year there aren't enough places for everyone and the school didn't say anything. Money is tight for us so I waited a few days until pay day before sending in the form and the money. Then I found out my year 6 child had a place and my year 5 child didn't.

That doesn’t make it right. That is not inclusive. Not at all.

Our primary is brilliant; you can still go whenever you join. They make sure no one is excluded at all.

First come first served for residential trips in primary school is piss poor in my opinion. I’d be furious with this.

At our school, the children who can't go/don't want to go on residentials have just as fun a time as those who are away, doing out of the ordinary, off- timetable lessons.

Could this have to do with the limitations of space at the venues?

150 children is a lot to accommodate.

I've taken around 50 children before.

Most schools would be looking at one or two classes at most.

Even if a site could accommodate that many, there'd probably be other schools that have booked in too so there wouldn't be space still.

If my dd's school offered places to everyone it would be just shy of 200 places needed.

Yes they could split the group but then you'd have 2 weeks of disruption instead of one and considering staff do this voluntarily, they may not wish to do it twice a year.

That’s completely dependent on a venue having available spaces - they may not be able to accommodate this. I’ve run many many trips and they are not as easy to organise as some posters think.

The most we’ve ever taken is 60 and it was extremely difficult to find anywhere to accommodate that many