Bute House or Latymer prep 7+

[Simplymom]

Hi all
DD got 7+ offers from Bute House and Latymer prep and we can’t decide which one to go for. When we visited the schools, we fell in love with Bute (the vibe, the confident and happy girls, the relaxed environment) and thought we would try Latymer just for a back up option. However as she now got both offers, I am starting to think whether Latymer would be a better option given it’s an all through school and could avoid 11+ stress. But then looking at Bute 11+ results surely it shouldn’t be that difficult to get into a good secondary without extra tutoring. I am adamant of extra tutoring on top of private school fees.
for additional info - my DD is at state school now, we only started gentle prep for 7+ in Sep and had tutor who came 6-7 times in total (mainly to teach creative writing as they don’t teach them that way in her current school); we did math prep ourselves. So overall it was a pretty easy prep for 7+. So I am wondering am I being naive about 11+ using my 7+ experience judgement and should avoid it by all means and take Latymer prep offer?

sorry for a long post! Any view of these schools would be much appreciated. We need to make our decision by the end of this weekend!

What secondary schools do you think would suit her / your family? If you prefer co-Ed and like the ethos of Latymer then it’s a no brainer.

If it’s not a schools you’d be interested in otherwise then it’s a harder decision as the school should for the child

Good choice to make but in case it affects your decisions, almost everyone at Bute will have external tutors for 11plus whatever people may tell you!

Hi @MusicMum80s

we really don’t know what secondary would suit her best. She is described by her teachers as a ‘all rounder’, she is bright (but not genius or gifted imo), very social (true extravert) and gets along equally well with girls and boys, however doesn’t cope well with ‘nasty/mean’ type girls, she is a very kind nature so will not confront directly these type of kids and will suffer in these situations.
i know a lot of people think one should keep open options for 11+ as there are so many school but in the ideal world we’d like her to go to a west london school (where we live) and not considering boarding (too expensive).

@Simplymom , you either stick with Latymer or go with Bute and end up at SPSG or G&L with all the stress the 11 plus brings. I would take the Latymer offer as it sounds suited to your dd.

Definitely go for Bute if you want a solid education for the next 4 years for your DD. It’s a fantastic school with very high standard, including pastoral responses and care. Latymer Prep’s teaching is of a low level for year 3 and 4, lots of worksheets and video watching.
For girls, there are more options at 11+, SPSG, G&L and Westminster School. It sounds like your DD is very intelligent. I’m sure she will do well for 11+.

Having put one child through the 7+ and one through 11+ for competitive London schools I would say they are worlds apart in terms of what is needed and the level of prep required.

I’d go with Latymer then. It sounds like you could go to Bute just to apply to Latymer later. I personally like the ethos of Latymer and if we were in West London would be my preferred choice amongst the big West London schools.

Depends what you are focused on. If you want the better school and better primary provision, it is Bute. If you want to be done with 11+, Latymer. I would personally go with Bute, see what fits re secondary alter. We looked at Latymer prep and were a bit underwhelmed. They can afford not to be great. The facilities are slightly underinvested, the teaching is a question mark, and I was not impressed by the head of pastoral care either

Sorry 😅 *They can afford to be "not great"

Bute is a really good school, but they ALL tutor outside as well. The parents are ambitious and do workshops, writing clubs, tutoring etc outside of the school. If I remember correctly, I was told at the start they were not given homework (for reception entry), but parents were giving their dd their own homework to do! Of course, there may be the odd case in that school with laid back parents, who do not do the extra. From what I hear the school is amazing (I know several parents who send their dds their). The ones I know, and from what they say, the parents do a lot of extra outside of the school. I am not so sure they would get the same results for 11+ if the parents were not doing the extra tutoring, workshops etc on top.

This is true. While Bute is fairly relaxed and tries to deter pushiness, parents do just do it all out of school anyway. The west London parents who have got their child a place here are highly ambitious and driven to make sure their child succeeds. Our DD will probably not go onto one of the top tier seniors and we are having to work hard to stop her feeling a failure amongst her peers.
It is also a big school and we find the pastoral side is less personal and the manner and attitude of the girls reflects the highly pushy, demanding parents. There is lots of focus on mental health now but some of the social skills and the way the girls talk to each other when out of school is less than supportive.
Dd loves it, which is what matters most. And I am unsure Latymer would be much different, perhaps diffused with co ed and no 11+ pressure?

I would add that my 11+ child was not in a prep school but from friends who were I thought it sounded quite miserable exactly how zoned in exclusively on the 11+ they were in years 5 and 6. Which I suppose is what you are largely paying for. Hence I liked the idea of being able to take the 11+ off the table by doing at 7+ and have a late primary/prep school quality experience that could take a broader focus.

I don’t live local to Latymer or Bute so can’t speak to specifics there.

All West London Preps be they Ken prep, Glendower or Bute have go getter parents who will tutor on top, this isn't a 'Bute' thing.

And there's a lot of meaning in the word tutoring, OP has been tutoring , with very light external tutoring, I tutor mine the same, mostly down to me with top up external tutoring when needed, big difference to that than having personal tutor who comes to your home 10 hours a week.

All private schools expect parents to do a lot of the heavy lifting , again this isn't a Bute thing, its a private school thing IMHO.

Personally OP I would go to Bute for sure, Latymer is a great school but why limit your options, they wont prep for anything but the Latymer ladder, whereas Bute will take a look at your DD and point her to the best she can achieve.

To be blunt if your DD gets offers from top schools from a state primary with minimal tutoring, she's in a different league to the bulk of London private school 11+ and you should be keeping your options wide open for a very bright child like that.

I agree 100 percent. I have friends with kids at other ‘top’ West London preps and it’s the same story at all of them.

Even parents that aren’t that way themselves feel pressure to do massive amounts of tutoring because they feel the need to keep up on not let their kids down. Its far from a gentle experience.

My experience of a school similar to Latymer in London is that parents who choose all-through at least in the primary years aren’t as extreme

@SamPoodle123, @MusicMum80s agree! If you not into tutor etc, Latymer will be the best choice. They don’t spend year 4, 5, 6 doing 11+. The point to think about is GCSEs, which Latymer will stop doing.
Another point is if your DC in Bute, without tutoring outside school, would they get into Latymer at 11+. May I suggest you check the 11+ sample papers to see the massive jump in topics and types of exams questions.

Bute!

my daughters went there and you really can trust them totally. I absolutely loved it and I miss it still.

Having said that, the were there from reception and so felt properly like Bute girls. I know a few who started in Year 3 who never fell in love with it in the way we did.

I'd just go for Latymer. You will avoid the horrendous West London prep 11plus arms race and the associated parents...if you're at a State Primary now it's hard to imagine it...
But you will also avoid GCSEs - a big plus in my opinion but something to think about.
If you think you want a Girls only secondary obviously go for Bute!

Yup, I am sure it goes on at all the top prep schools. I only mentioned Bute because she asked about Bute. And yes, there are different levels of tutoring for sure. But from what I heard, the amount of extra outside input is a lot from the parents I know with dc at Bute. It is not just tutoring once or twice a week...it includes workshops (such as verbal reasoning, non verbal reasoning, creative writing etc).....writing clubs and so on. Perhaps the dc don't even need all this prep and the parents just get scared when they hear about other parents doing things. My dd did the 11+ last year and she was at a state primary. She only started prep end of year 5. We knew nothing about 11+, but after speaking to a Bute parent, we decided to do tutoring once a week (group session via zoom). When you are surrounded by parents and you hear them doing x, y and z you start to worry if you don't your dc might be at a disadvantage. However, all this extra prep is not always needed. It depends on the dc. We did not go crazy with prep and all was fine.

@Pointerdogsrule pls can you share your tutor for creative writing?

tough decision as both are amazing schools. I would say avoid the 11+ stress

You are spot on, its the herd that make parents insecure and want to tutor too much, even when the child doesn't neeed it ( and doing fine with parent help and say a little help from a tutor once a week in a run up to exams).

Its a sad state of affairs , its important for parents of very bright children like you have, or OP, not to get suckered into it. Its about being honest with yourself and trusting your instinct.

If one has an average child and deep down one knows this, tutoring them to an inch of their lives to scrape into the Latymer's of this world, what's the point? Far better for them to be in a less selective school.

If Latymer isn't a fit for the OP, I'm sure they'll be able to switch at 11+ anyway, its only an issue for borderline ability ( and I don't mean that in a nasty way, I mean that for children who aren't academic and need lots of tutoring to get past entrance).

Hi @Animatedapple can I ask how did you and your DDs find 11+ and which secondary school did they go to? And one more question - how is music and drama at Bute?

@RK20 I think you meant to ask @Simplymom ?

yes, I’d agree with this. We were told to start tutoring for 7+ a year in advance the latest as we wouldn’t stand a chance after a state school. I didn’t want to do it and we only did some prep (once a week) in the last 3-4 months before the exams. We took a view if she doesn’t get in then these schools are not for her. So I am still in a bit skeptical that a reasonably bright child requires so much tutoring while being at a selective primary.
I may be completely wrong!

You could stay at a state school and still get into an academic secondary school. We did not prep until end of May year 5 (and it was light prep) and dd now goes to G&L. She came from a state school and felt no pressure at all around the 11+ In fact, she enjoyed it.

Wanted to add, I think the reason for this is because she did not feel the pressure from the school or other dc. Not many people were doing it.

"then looking at Bute 11+ results surely it shouldn’t be that difficult to get into a good secondary without extra tutoring."

Need to think about - Butes destination results is a compound effect of:

1. 7+ selection
2. Parents that send their DD to Butes are switched on parents that will provide education support outside school to achieve desired 11+ result (this includes extra tutoring, and yes I personal know some)
3. Maybe the school itself has good teaching environment.