Bute House or Latymer prep 7+

[Simplymom]

Hi all
DD got 7+ offers from Bute House and Latymer prep and we can’t decide which one to go for. When we visited the schools, we fell in love with Bute (the vibe, the confident and happy girls, the relaxed environment) and thought we would try Latymer just for a back up option. However as she now got both offers, I am starting to think whether Latymer would be a better option given it’s an all through school and could avoid 11+ stress. But then looking at Bute 11+ results surely it shouldn’t be that difficult to get into a good secondary without extra tutoring. I am adamant of extra tutoring on top of private school fees.
for additional info - my DD is at state school now, we only started gentle prep for 7+ in Sep and had tutor who came 6-7 times in total (mainly to teach creative writing as they don’t teach them that way in her current school); we did math prep ourselves. So overall it was a pretty easy prep for 7+. So I am wondering am I being naive about 11+ using my 7+ experience judgement and should avoid it by all means and take Latymer prep offer?

sorry for a long post! Any view of these schools would be much appreciated. We need to make our decision by the end of this weekend!

I don't think you are necessarily wrong depending on how bright the child is and what schools you are targeting etc. I think people were mentioning that the results of the prep schools are down to outside tutoring not exclusively the teaching at the prep.

We turned down Bute for LPS twice. Two dc who adored the prep and then the senior school and have done very well as have their prep contemporaries. It is a fabulous, happy, cosy school with great teachers. It’s entirely personal but I didn’t like the Bute vibe - too big and pushy and had heard some horror stories similar to on here about 11+ insanity. But that’s me, which school spoke to you most OP and also do you prefer coed or single sex? Happy to answer questions on DM

Thanks all for your valuable inputs - all helpful to consider in our decision making process

I have 2 DDs at Bute including one just doing 11+.

So many comments here from the people who don't have the first hand experience. In general, there are lots of misinformation on any school which are created and spread by non parents so I think it's important to filter the advice well.

Bute is very strong with academics and pastoral care. It has a very strong and well thought out curriculum implemented thoroughly. Lots of subjects are taught in small groups of 5 or 6 girls and the teachers nurturing but ambitious for the girls.

Tutoring is rampant everywhere but hands on heart I do believe it is less at Bute compared to other girls or co-ed prep schools around we also have an experience with. They actually spend more time in school for academic/11+ subjects. Thanks to the facility on site, there is little wasted time for travelling to the pool, sports site and etc. Due to the nature of selectivity, the lessons move at a brisk pace. Lots of lessons 30 minutes long back to back and some lessons 90 minutes long for deep-dive learning. Maybe ask to see their timetable. It's very full and fuller than most other prep schools. So when they say that they will do all needed for 11+, you know it is possible.

11+ is stressful or not depending on what you're like and the gap between your DC's natural ability and 'your' target school. If you found 7+ stressful, felt the urges to over prep your DC and had only 1 or 2 'your' target schools in mind, it would be healthier for your DC to not repeat the experience in 4 years time.

Most Bute girls don't apply to Latymer as they prefer single sex environment.

I also have an experience of a couple of other prep schools and Latymer (some with other DC) and I find Bute the best education wise.

"Most Bute girls don't apply to Latymer as they prefer single sex environment."

I don't buy this "first hand" information, if you check the schools website, LU is the top 3 senior school destination from Butes.

https://www.butehouse.co.uk/after-bute-house/senior-school-results/

@PreplexJ Yes about 10 girls do go onto Latymer (out of 60-65). So I meant most by 50-55 girls who don't go onto that school.

You can clearly see that most girls move onto a girls school, so if OP have a preference for co-ed, it would be a no brainer to go with Latymer prep.

Thank you @tictoc97531 this is all very reassuring. We chose Bute at the end for all the reasons you have mentioned. Our DD found 7+ process quite easy hence I am hoping 11+ won’t be an issue

I teach undergraduates and have been very impressed by the last three students I've had from Latymer: they're flexible, curious, all-round well-educated people who respond very well to the self-directed aspect of university life. Conversely the most recent SPGS students have been poor writers (lots of basic errors) and in need of constant email reassurance and support with the simplest research tasks. A small sample size, but it leads me to think that the teaching at Latymer Upper School is much better and that the school places more emphasis on educating students for life rather than for immediate exam success. The 11+ is also horrendous. So I would go with Latymer Prep now.

Too late, I see! I'm sure you'll look at a variety of schools for 11+. I don't know anything about Bute House and hope your daughter is happy there.

OK, I meant if they have 10 girls ended up in LU, most likely there will be more than 20 girls applied.

But yes if your most means somewhere between 50%-60% I agree it is possible.

This feel a bit fake to me, sorry.

OP, I think you really do want SPGS. If so go with Bute. If that weren’t the case Latymer would be such a no brainer it wouldn’t require a thread.

At either school your DD is likely to come out with the same academic results. So beyond prestige, the choice should really be down to the type of environment you feel fits your family ethos- co-Ed vs single sex, more economic diversity, more competitive, more inclusive for sport/ music/ plays, approach to education, mental health etc. No one can tell you which school suits your family better as it’s a very personal when selecting amongst only extremely good choices.

I’d need to have a strong preference for another secondary school to turn down Latymer and put my kids through the 11+ of it already suited those points. Kids can always do the 11+ anyway with a place already secured at Latymer so you aren’t permanently closing off any options.

@PreplexJ
Why on earth does it feel fake? I'm a long time poster and often try to give what information I can about Oxford to mumsnetters whose children are applying.
I had always thought SPGS was an excellent school. Now I doubt this. My St Paul's students over the last few years have been extremely bright and, all except one, atrocious essays writers. (By this I don't mean lacking flashiness or rhetorical punch, but endlessly tripped up by hanging participles, subject switches in a single sentence etc.) They also seem to lack the ability to work on open-ended projects and constantly ask for help.

OK, I get what you mean by the typical writing style in this particular school.

Maybe the Oxbridge tutors from your subject should do a better work on filtering the students in the first place.

Oooops think I posted this in the wrong place

I had always thought SPGS was an excellent school. Now I doubt this.

Based on the anecdotal evidence of the handful of girls you teach from the minority of 6th form girls who head to Oxford each year from the school ??

Maybe the Oxford colleges should be more selective like Cambridge which accepts about half the number , 😉

Bute house teaches English very well. Especially grammar! My girls have a very good grasp of spag.

I've taught about a dozen girls from SPGS over the last fifteen years and I've interviewed many more. Why is the evidence of a parent with a single child at the school more accurate?

As I say, I know nothing about Bute House. I was simply trying to suggest that SPGS is not the ultimate goal of all educational aspirations. Most of the students that I teach come from state schools. Many are international students. Some go to schools in the UK (Latymer would be an example; Camden School for Girls would be another) that teach my subject carefully and creatively and help students to develop independent habits of reading and thinking. I have not yet encountered a SPGS student that I would put in this category. (Some are obviously very clever.)

@hopsalong I don't think parents who aspire to SPGS will really care. The differentiator for those obsessed with going there is that its top of league tables and so 'best'. For certain personality types, 'best' in the narrowest sense of the word is the priority.

@hopsalong I mean if this description of the parent community from the Head of SPGS didn't put people off, I'm not sure much can while they top the league tables.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/top-head-attacks-parents-2kj6tjv9m65

What about the other Oxford feeders? Westminster? Eton? Are St Pauls boys the same? Kings College school? All of them have far more pupils per school applying than SPGS, so I'm sure they must have crossed your path?

If you're carefully tracking St Pauls girls and Latymer and Camden, I assume you must have an opinion on this?

This is very interesting. Over how much time has this impression been formed, given that Latymer Upper seems to send less than ten students a year to Oxford? How many of those ten a year have you been teaching?

I found hopsalongs comment interesting and read it with my 6th former DS planning to apply to Oxbridge.

He feels that hopsalong doesn't genuinely teach at Oxford. Looking at their observation and conclusion drawing skills, not to mention the action of publishing such incomplete and misleading information on a forum in such manner, he feels (and hopes) that this post is fake.

I share his view...

They assert that they've been teaching at Oxford over the last 15 years, and they've taught at least three from Latymer Upper. If your assertion that LU sends about 10 students a year to Oxford is true (I can't be bothered to look it up), then they've taught at least 3 out of probably over 100. Why would you find this difficult to believe?