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[bobsmum]

Ds is 5 and in P1.

I'm getting either phone calls or letters home about his appalling behaviour at school weekly or sometimes more frequently.

He is rude, defiant, disobedient and disruptive in class.

When reprimanded he either answers back, makes faces and rude noises or tantrums with shouting, crying and screaming.

Various options such as losing time on a fun activity or being taken out of class altogether have no effect on him. If anything remotely good happens afterwards or on the same day then he will turn to me, smile and and say "See even if I do naughty things, good things still happen to me".

He is doing well academically - has no struggles with reading or maths.

He doesn't seem to give a damn about pleasing the teachers or other staff members at school and I'm getting increasingly upset by the barrage of hideous reports coming home about my wee boy.

The headteacher has asked to come to the house newt week, for chat. My mum is worried that this could be the start of him being asked to leave or repeat a year.

What can I do?

What can I say to him when he gets home - I know he'll lie and say he did nothing. And even when he does admit he's been badly behaved, he'll jump in say sorry immediately and expect that to be the end of it.

I've run out of sanctions/punishments/discpline methods. Nothing is working.

Bobsmum

Glad you thought my post useful, was wee bit worried you would think i was suggesting something was v.wrong. We haven't gone down the official diagnosis route, will do it if he needs it later but he is nor v.bad, however even an unnofficial diagnosis from the ED phych and SALT has made a difference to the teachers, they make allowances and listen to my suggestions and i even come in to school 2x45mins a week to help him finish the boring worksheets that he can't sustain interest in long enough to complete. DS2 is much happier and even sometimes expresses an interest in impressing the teacher, in my opinion children are given much more boring busy work these days, I bet your boy is much better behaved when they are doing interesting topic work! My DS hit the teacher in P1!.

Bobsmum I hope that everything goes well.
This thread is very interesting. Both in terms of how I look at ds's outgoing, information gathering characteristics, and also in relation to someone that we know that almost certainly has AS as an adult, but not diagnosed - just makes relationships and social interaction difficult (not that he is aware of that). Mind you, ds does seem, at the moment, to react to the star chart type reward system, so, based on allytd's comments, my ds is probably just confident, outgoing and full-of-beans (which is what, I imagine, most people would wish for their ds's).

Hope it goes well. Just thought I would mention that my ds, when he was in P1 was confident and would do all the things that is being complained about by your school. he also wasn't the only child like that - there were a number of wee boys who were equally confident and assertive. The school celebrated that - while also making sure that the most boisterous boys weren't sitting at the same table

Another thought - have you got a copy of the "Golden Rules" that the school uses? It might be useful to have a copy of them at hime and use them to re-inforce the behavoviours that are expected at home.

Meeting went well I think. Haven't got time to post properly atm. But will tomorrow hopefully.

But many, many thanks for all your input - it's going to be a long haul, but I feel we're making progress

Look forward to hearing more and glad to have been of assisitance and that you feel progress i sfinally being made

Glad to hear it! Tell us more, when you're ready.

Do hope you are able to tell us how it went

Right. Friday afternoon - dcs are installed for a while in front of Cbeebies

Ok.

My mum came which was fab. She'd done loads of reading and preparation bless her. She'd even got a bit carried away looking at sites and books on gifted children! Not sure if we're quite in that area, but it was interesting reading for sure.

The head said she didn't normally come round to people's houses, but wanted the chance to have a more in depth chat that wouldn't be minuted or go on any permanent record.

As a professional - this had been one of my mums' biggest concerns, that all this paperwork would start to follow ds around no matter how things panned out.

We chatted about how ds was at home and the differences there seemed to be at school.

The head emphasised again that they have no concerns whatsover about ds' academic ability. And she did mention that she thought ds might be bored. The only worry they had was that if they moved him on to stronger stuff that he still wouldn't be able to stay "on task" as he was so prone to daydreaming.

She said their biggest issue with him at the moment is his inability to sit still in a classroom situation. He fidgets and drums and hums - he's very musical but doesn't notice he's doing it most of the time. This is irritating his teacher firstly and the rest of the class. It's getting "wearing". I can see that it would be, but at the moment I'm not entirely sure how to tackle this one.

I also mentioned the use of the homework diary and asked if I could get phone calls for the behaviour that needed tackled straightaway.

At this point I burst out crying trying to explain a time last week that ds had spotted a sad face written in his book. He'd misunderstood and assumed it was for that day, when it was actually for a couple of days previous. He was clearly wracking his brains to think of what he'd done and got really teary and upset, because he couldn't think of anything. It was heart wrenching at the time

We talked for a couple of hours in the end. The head seemed dismayed at the way ds had begun this whole journey and the lack of explanation I'd been given at he time. (He'd been at the council nursery for 6 weeks when I was told at parent's night he'd been referred to an EdPsych and would I sign the permission slip.) She's since given me some websites and leaflets to look at

Anyway, in the last couple of days I've actually had a lot of positive feedback for the first time in ages! Ds finished his sticker chart which he swapped for some bubbles , completed a worksheet well enough to get another sticker and has had smiley faces in his homework diary for excellent reading!

I phoned for an unrelated matter yesterday and his class teacher told me they have a music student on placement in the school who took ds out for some one-to-one music tuition and she was amazed at his ability - especially his rhythm. Most people are - he is a bit unusual with his music.

And today he came bouncing off the bus to say he had a Primary 2 reading book and had sat with the P2s all day doing their work!! He said their worksheets were easy, but a teacher wrote down the answers he told her - I assume he must've had a scribe!

This is all good- isn't it?

Ds read the P2 book to me when he got home - and sure enough he breezed through it.

We just have to work on this concentration thing and his innate ability to wind people up. He's like and 8 year old trapped in a 3 year old's body!

One hurdle crossed I think, many ,many more to come....

oh that is fantastic news bobsmum! It sounds as if the head really did listen to what you said and the music tuition and the Primary 2 reading sound such a good idea.

The concentration will come in time; he's very, very young. I think the school will have to be patient!

Well done for getting through that though, it was obviously stressful. Hope you're treating yourself to something tonight - end of a long week!

What a step forward! The head seems to have accepted your ds's needs to a certain extent, which has already made a big difference to him. How lovely for him to feel proud of himself . And I bet you feel proud of yourselves, too, for achieving this change for him.

I'm willing to bet that, once he is sufficiently stimulated and interested in his work, his concentration will improve hugely. Of course, he is still a 5yo boy, no matter what level he is at intelectually, and will need the sort of physical freedom any 5yo needs. Hopefully this will be understood while he is with the P2s.

When my ds1 gets jittery, or struggles to maintain concentration, I find that he responds really well to some physical activity - even if it's in the middle of, say, doing a worksheet. I think that sometimes concentration and stillness seem to build up physical tension, which needs to be released. So doing a forward roll, or some jumping jacks, and then returning to the task works well. Or getting him to write his spellings in chalk on the patio floor, if he's too full of beans to control the pencil and write small.

That's interesting PC about the physical activity thing.

Interestingly his behaviour has improved on the 2/3 days that the weather has too, so suddenly ds is running around the playfield (we don't have playgrounds in the sticks ) 3 times a day rather than being stuck playing lego indoors all the time. He loves lego, but there's only so much sitting still a wee boy can take!

The school have arranged for some of the pupils to go to a childrens classical concert a the gLasgow Concert hall later today - ds is bouncing off the ceiling and can't wait. Fingers crossed he an sit still. I suspect he'll be glued to his seat for this though

I'm sure I'll be back, hopefully with happy tales, rather than more tales of woe!

It deso sound like things are imporving. Stretching him both physcially and mentally will help "tire" him so that he deons't have the chance to misbehave - as long as it is not toooo much.

I'm glad they seem to have spotted some musical ability too and hopefully that can be channelled too.

Did he enjoy the concert?

seriously no playground time!!!!!!!!!!!! It's amazing all the boys and half the girls haven't gone stir crazy if that is the case..........

He loved the concert and behaved really well throughout - he sat next to the head and she was very pleased with him.

She phoned today and asked if I would give permission for a SALT referral. She's hoping that casting the net wide so to speak might unlock some of the reasons behind his outbursts. She's hoping a SALt can home in on the communication side of things ie why he doesn't read social rules/expectations very well.

I know my mum won't be too impressed about more professionals being called in, I'll have to either not tell her or be very diplomatic!

The head has also mentioned ds' sensitivity to certain sounds and noises. Several musician friends have suggested he may have perfect pitch, in which case there may be some sounds that upset him or even cause pain? I don't know much about it, but I guess it would tie in with his musical ability.

The music student has said to staff that ds can manage a lot of complex rhythms that she can't. They have been composing together for a short time after playtime and he's loving it.

My "Talk so kids will listen" book has arrived and even the first few chapters are looking fab. So many thanks for that recommendation

Glad to hear it - and also that you are getting on well with the book. I must read mine again!

Further update.

Had IEP meeting yesterday with EdPsych, Headteacher, class teacher, SLA and myself.

Lots of positives about ds' academic acheivements - no worries there at all. But still very little progress socially. The fidgeting and lack of concentration is still a big concern.

EdPsych has recommended a referral for a diagnosis of either ADHD or ASD.

She is going to come for a home visit during the spring holidays to talk to me and dh before compiling a report for whoever will be making the diagnosis (if he gets one I suppose).

I think I feel ok about all this - it might draw a line under the endless meetings and discussions which have been going round in circles.

We've also been getting complaints about ds from the bus driver about ds taking his seatbelt off on the school bus. I think his bad behaviour on the bus is as much about it being a 45 minute trip minimum - which is a long, long time for a 5 year old at the end of a school day. With ds it's asking for trouble. With a diagnosis, he may be entitled to a taxi!

My mum will not be impressed. But I don't think we've got a choice anymore - he's too disruptive to his peers and it's startgint to affect his own education too.

Hi Bobsmum,

My DD (5) was diagnosed with AS last september like your DS she is also very bright. All i can say is its been a very positive thing for us, she is no longer seen as a naughty and disruptive child and having a DX has opened alot of doors for her.

During in my own research i can across this.

www.gt-cybersource.org/Record.aspx?NavID=2_0&rid=11381

The traits for both are almarmingly similar, i often wonder (and so do school) if its her AS or the fact that shes miles ahead of her peers that creates problems.

Hope this helps

twocute - that is a fab link - thank you!

A lot fits with ds - especially the sensitivity to noise etc. Will print it out and pass it on to the headteacher - she's keen for anything and everything that will let her get a handle on ds' behaviour - she's great at fighting his corner.