Top 20% of year group

[Paddingtonthebear]

I see it mentioned that top 20% of year group is a good indication for grammar school / 11+. In a state school that doesn’t discuss top sets, position in cohort or suitability for grammar school, what does this actually look like?

@dogoncouch I hope you did not study Geography. Since when is Slough a London Borough? Also Slough is not in Bucks. There’s a tiny bit of Slough in catchment for Burnham Grammar but no London Borough.

I never said Slough was a London borough - I did think it was Bucks because of the Grammars. Apparently it was historically in Bucks which is why, I'm guessing, it's retained the Grammars. Admittedly I've not read the admissions criteria for this year but previously my postcode district has been listed as an outer catchment and I know of several children from my postcode who are in Grammars there so it is possible but probably not the route we will go down even with current scores that indicate potential which was the point of my post.

Slough and Langley retain Grammars btw and it is these Grammars that local kids to me go.

@dogoncouch It was in Bucks until 1974! So nearly 50 years of not being in Bucks! Slough runs its own grammars. I’ve not looked at their catchments. However, for clarity, they are not Bucks grammars.

Yes you have clarified what I have already said!

yes - Slough was historically in Bucks which is possibly the reason it has retained it's Grammars. Late 60s and 70s was the era that most areas went comprehensive and if Slough was in Bucks at the time, that would explain it.

Depends on the grammar school. My DS goes to a super selective top ten grammar. I’d say that a primary pupil would need to be in the top 5% as a minimum to get into DS’ grammar. In my DS’ case I would say he’s more like top 1% based on his test results at primary stage where he regularly achieved 140/141 (the top of the standardised scores). He’s consistently in the top half of all subjects at his grammar and is often in the top ten percentage for some subjects.

The Chelmsford and Colchester grammar schools are super selective - there are no pass marks, those with the highest score get in although Chelmsford does have (a pretty wide) catchment area that was put in place due to the number of pupils that were travelling from London and stopping children in Essex getting a place.

Southend is a bit different because there are two boys and two girls grammar schools (whereas Chelmsford and Colchester only have one for each). That means there is less competition in Southend and makes it a bit more like a full grammar area. There is a pass mark for the Southend schools (303) and my understanding is that if a pupil lives in the catchment and gets that score, they are very likely to get a place. To contrast this with KEGS in Chelmsford (which requires the highest scores of all the Essex grammars) a minimum score of 345 is likely to be required to get in (except for pupil premium kids who need a slight slowly score). So there is quite a big difference!

Back when the 11+ was the norm I went to a rundown school in an innercity slum. We had no inside toilets, partitions had to be moved and desks moved for assembly. I was in a class of 48 and 23 of us went to grammar school.

@Iwasafool Well, that certainly wouldn't happen nowadays! To be fair- it didn't happen much then either. But I agree, it did happen.

It happened pretty much every year at that school, it was very similar in my older and younger siblings years, I think there was a slightly lower pass rate for my older sibling and a slightly higher one for my younger sibling but very similar.

@TizerorFizz.. In my experience the dc who are poor readers have undiagnosed sen.

And the parents unfortunately either don't notice, don't care, are poor readers themselves or, like a vast majority of parents, believe (wrongly) that the school can help.

My own dc had a reading issue that I went down a long path to resolve.

@ThunderCloudsinSumer Maybe. However some of these Dc aren’t great at maths either. It’s not much use pretending all of us are equal. Some DC will have SEN which limits all learning. They simply won’t be in a grammar. Plenty of middle and higher achievers won’t either. It’s what it is.

I answered not in the context of the thread sorry.

I'm not pretending we are all equal.
But one can't deny that supporting sen early on and getting children reading sooner won't improve their chances later on.
It will also help to break the cycle.. A disproportionate and high no of children leave primary school unable to read.

@ThunderCloudsinSumer how did you resolve your reading issue. One of mine is struggling

@memote in what way are they struggling

@ThunderCloudsinSumer she had a speech delay & she still gets stuck on some sounds eg C & F. Struggles with blending phonics, seems to learn words more from sight. I can tell she is frustrated as she's desperate to read & I think it's impacting her self esteem. Her oldest sister is an advanced reader which I think makes it worse.

I've sent you, or I think I have a pm

yes i can see a message