Private school AND tutors, what am I missing?

[ChocChipHandbag]

Just came back from a drinks eve with some fellow Year 1 mothers. Our children are in an independent primary that goes straight through to senior so no need to do 7+ or 11+. The school is high ranked and academic. Additional kids join at Year 3 and year 7 after doing entrance exams.

Several of the parents are paying for their kids to do extra maths with tutors. These are not kids who are behind in maths, they are the bright ones. The rationale seems to be that the 7+ kids joining in Year 3 will have been intensively tutored so the “straight through” kids need to be at the same level.

My DS is really really good at maths. Teacher says he is easily the best in the class. I kind of figured that was good enough, the school knows what it is doing and he’ll be absolutely fine in junior school. What are all these parents scared of- am I missing something here? They are not even 7, GCSEs are years away.

Yes..and that’s fine unless your child has a problem with reading/ writing and finds it even harder to ‘keep up’. That system doesn’t suit everyone.

Er, it seems to suit more children than the crackpot system we have. By focusing on daycare and play from 0 to 6 on social and personal development, by the time kids start formal learning at 6, they see institutions as places to be themselves. My children were bringing home reading stuff from nursery at 3 when they couldn't even button up their shirts. Maybe the problem is trying to teach them phonics when they haven't even sharpened skills through socialising and play, organised play helps develops soft skills like concentration and problem solving, which at the age of four are stronger predictors of academic success than the age at which a child learns to read.

The 'keep up' translates as endless tests and assesments and measuring for gov stats, little to do with building well rounded , individuals. Its no co-incidence private schools set their own learning and barely follow the national curriculum as a guideline.

I don’t actually agree with that. If all children start school in year 2 then the ones that would have struggled in reception (nursery even, blows my mind they teach phonics in nursery) are 2 years older. 2 years more capable of understanding, focusing and learning. There’s a big difference teaching a 6 year old to read than a 4 year old. Also there isn’t much need for phonics as children of 6 can learn to read without the help of phonics. I know some children will still struggle but a hell of a lot less than at 4. I did buddy reading at my childrens school I have seen very young children really struggle it’s heart breaking. Give them a break.

‘I did buddy reading at my childrens school I have seen very young children really struggle it’s heart breaking. Give them a break.’

I’ve been a primary teacher for many years in three continents and Scandinavia so I do ‘give them a break’, thanks. Just talking from experience, though…….

If you’ve been a teacher on 3 different continents then do you support private tutors for year 1’s? Why teach very young children to read and write when they’re not ready. What would you suggest? I’m genuinely interested.

It’s very difficult to manage a large and possibly mixed year group ( eg Year 1/2 together). Teachers in that situation are often facing four years difference in terms of learning. What I’m saying is that an experienced teacher will manage that class as individuals ( knowing that some children may well ‘ not be ready’ in terms of maturity etc ) but it is impossible to say’ let’s just wait until ‘they are ready’. I also assess for dyslexia and it is quite clear very early on that some children struggle because of this and my argument is that they need help early. I’m not arguing for tutoring at all but the oft quoted Scandinavian model is not perfect, believe me!

I wasn’t talking about a mixed age group class. That must be difficult and l understand that there will be children who struggle. I don’t know how things would have worked out if we had stayed in Germany. Both my children started school in the UK on the same day one in year 2 and one in reception so I can only talk from a personal experience of them. I wish my youngest could have started in year 2 as well. I was amazed how competitive the parents were here and how much they pushed their v young children. My eldest definitely had the best experience. My youngest struggled and hates reading. I wonder if it’s because they were pushed to read too early. The youngest is working at GD now so has caught up (I hate that phrase). I think they’re both similar academically but I wonder if the youngest has just had too much school if that makes sense.

I totally understand that your personal experience will obviously influence your attitude towards tutoring, assessment etc etc and , inevitably, performance playground parenting or whatever you want to call it can be very hard to bear. I a similar way, your daughter’s experiences of early learning may not have been as positive as you had wished but I still maintain that there is no perfect education system and good teachers will work within whatever they find themselves in to do their best for their small charges.

Yes I agree, there is no one system that suits all children. Our children’s teachers have all been great and I have no complaints there.

@ChocChipHandbag
I've been reading different perspectives on mathmos I believe they are called at Cambridge and Oxford.

To be honest no matter how good they think they are, trust me they need all the tutoring and assistance they can get, especially if they want to do well.

Huh? These kids are 6!

Then why wait to make sure they get the best education possible.

No-one says the Nordic model is perfect , but its better than the state system we have in the UK. But there are some additional reasons the system is better:

• Teachers are better respected and most entering teaching have masters degrees , and are decently paid, it isn't a 'I have a 2.2 and can't think of anything else to do, so I'll do a PGCE, hate it after a year and leave' career path like the UK, devalued, low morale and always on strike (like today)!
• Kids have free daycare and they do have to start pre-school aged by 6, so its actually not that much later, real school starts at 7, but all Nordic kids will be in some sort of learning centre long before that.
• Schools aren't seen as political footballs
• Universities are fully funded, so take up to study doesn't mean saddling yourself with massive debt.
• No two tier education system , schools are funded , there are no Eton's and St Pauls and Westminster, so everyone has 'skin in the game' and ensures education budgets are well funded.

It might have just been a standardised cats score

Some parents are ambitious for their children and don’t have the hours in the day and/or motivation to spend extra time with them.
Children also really enjoy one to one attention and feeling academically confident for support or extension.
if you can afford it who wouldn’t?

I'd say they are prepping for the 7+ and giving them a head start. Mine go private but its a soft school so there are only a few being tutored who may not be as strong as the others. Is yours more of a hothouse where children have to keep up? That might explain the extra tutoring.

I have a child at any Indy school, no parents would be told this so directly

I personally do not believe in private tutors even at GCSE level. I would rather support myself. I trust my abilities more than a tutor and think all this is a bit overrated. For 11 plus we didn’t tutor our daughter and yet she has got through some of the most selective grammar and private schools entrance wilth academic and some other scholarships as she does many activities as well.
We are still deciding the best school that would fit her but would be based on where she would be happy and relaxed rather on the league table.

Many people have aspirations for their child above their own level of education.
Why should a parent who struggled at GCSE maths not employ a private tutor to help their child if they can't help themselves?

I was able to tutor my DD1 in maths & sciences for her GCSEs. But I don't see that as fundamentally a more moral choice than paying which you seem to make it out to be.

@TeenDivided

This has nothing to do with you or others. If you have read my comments I said personally I do not prefer. And yes we are lucky that we have excellent academic credentials both myself and my husband. But the point I was making is that the kids should be encouraged to be taught and not tutored. We only help when our daughter asks for and only when she has tried it herself and couldn’t.

My DS is really really good at maths. Teacher says he is easily the best in the class.

My experience of very, very academic Indy schools is that you won't be told this...even if you know you are.

OP, is this a surprise to you? My son is at a very competitive school and joined at Year 7 after 11. The "average" ability of this cohort is clearly above those who joined at 7+ and 8+. While some very bright kids joined at 7+ and 8+, some are quite behind, hence the "average" I talked about.

The reasons are pretty obvious. The autumn-born advantage (which got some in through 7+ and 8+) would disappear in senior school. Some got complacent (especially parents) and indeed not only academic side, but the discipline in behaviour is noticeably worse for some who joined at 7+ and 8+.

Also, it is not as easy to test academic potential at too early an age. I think yours got in through 4+ (is it Highgate or UCS?) and the above factors are even more significant.

There is a term for this sort of behaviour in Singapore. It is ‘kiasu’. It means “fear of missing out”, but not in the way people use FOMO.

It relates to grasping or competitive behaviour, and I think the flavour is best captured by ‘sharp elbowed’ or Tiger parents.

This sort of going to school and coming home for your tutoring every night was common even 40 years ago when I was young.

The reason they are paying for school and getting tutoring as well is because everybody else is and they want to keep their child ahead/not falling behind.

I can imagine my mum’s voice if I mentioned this thread to her, “Ai yah, so kiasu!”