Views on tutoring prep school kids

[Tutorhelpneeded]

Background: DC is in year 3 at an academically selective prep (this wasn't planned but they've ended up there & love it). DC appears to be doing well, A/B grades in everything (average is a C), reading age of 13, above average in recent progress tests (national average is 100, DC is in the 120s so not genius material but progressing well) and most importantly loves school and is thriving.

However I have a niggle as absolutely every other family we know at the school are having their DCs tutored in one way or another (one to one tutoring, Atom learning, Kumon etc.). Some are doing this because they're worried their child isn't keeping up with the pace and starting to look ahead to common entrance, others because it's the 'done thing'.

I am against tutoring for the sake of it and frankly think the kids do enough at school and should be able to relax/play in their spare time, but on the other hand I don't want DC to be left behind.

Can I ask parents with children at similar prep schools whether you tutor and what the situation is at your school? Do I need to accept that tutoring is the norm at these schools? It's our first rodeo with private education and we're a bit baffled. Thank you.

We were interviewed by Bute for a lottery win place, at 4+, it was required before a firm offer was given, AFTER winning a lottery place.

Even where entry is just assessment, you must know how much parents are dragged into school at top Prep schools, forever emails on some activity, charity thing, awareness day, sports day...etc, etc, etc...its non stop.

For parents at grammar schools and top Indie senior schools it just continues.

Also, what needs to be made clear, a talented child demands extra work, just above average children need extra work to push them over the line for top schools (which is unhealthy IMHO)

If its an arms race thing , what can the school do about it anyway? Isn't sending your child to Prep entering an arms race anyway? Its an opportunity most parents can't take up , its gaining that leg up over the average child for your own.

For those shouting for crazy Arm Race, not good for child's MH etc. Why not just relax not joining the game? Your DC will end up in the right school anyway. And lots London Prep mums will appreciate you for contribution, maybe help their DCs chance to get to the school they want with better MH too.

exactly! the same parents understand doing extra work outside their day jobs for career progression (conferences, reading, additional qualifications etc.) but with their children it's all within this small window during school and they shouldn't be burdened with it until parents evening (where it's suddenly a surprise as they haven't been keeping track).

I agree that external tutors are not needed like you say but parents need to keep track (which many in this thread are missing the woods for the trees). All going to a competitive school does is put your child in a cohort with high attainment, it doesn't mean less involvement from parents.

I didn't tutor my dc at a prep but I really regret it now I'm applying for senior schools. If it was an even playing field my dd would be ok but because so many have tutored over the years I've watched numerous other dc progress far past what the school have managed with my dc.
It's very annoying. I have tutors now but dc could not catch up to years of tutoring. Of course some dc are naturally able but even those ones seem to be tutored at our school ever widening the gap between those not tutored.

Thanks everyone for your input, it’s been eye opening. So my next question is: if we are going to accept that we need to jump
on the tutor bandwagon, how do we do this?! DC doesn’t need specific tutoring in a particular subject/area at the minute, I just want them to go into year 4 with a fighting chance. Would Atom Learning be a good option? They partner with DCs school so have mock exam papers online for their year 5 exams (the first set of exams for senior school entry).

Just to clarify, I don't 'abdicate learning'. We both do a huge amount to extend DC's learning (museums, day trips to historical sights, help with homework, reading around subjects DC is studying etc.) – in fact I cut down my work hours to be around more to do this. However what I didn't realise was that we'd need to be supplementing the £20k+ fees with additional teaching.

It exists, my child it at it, however I appreciate that 'top 10' might mean different things depending on whether you're looking at co-ed, single sex etc. I can't speak for every school but those in my area I know about all expect the children to pass common entrance (or their own equivalent) to enter the senior, regardless of whether they were at the prep or not. As I said up the thread, there are far more prep places at DCs school than there are at the senior school, so not everyone could automatically progress.

"If I’m spending £20 k a year I want my kid shitting rainbows whilst reading Jules Verne and making a decent fist of calculus in year 5"

@manontroppo 100% agree!!!!

Firstly I don't understand how the average grade is a C at an academically selective school where everyone is also tutored. Is the teaching at the school not up to scratch or something?

But if your DC is doing better than average without tutoring then I don't think you need to worry. The arms race descriptions seem like this is potentially quite a harmful environment for children, especially at primary age.

Its never been acceptable (in my view) to expect schools to educate your children

I find this mind boggling 🤯
Of course parents should be interested and involved, supporting learning, but it has never crossed my mind not to expect my DC's school to educate them.

I agree re the above comment, my expectation is that schools should be doing the bulk of the education, with parent engagement but this whole thing has got out of hand in London. Tutoring has become a whole industry, and of you have over tutored to get into the desired school, you run the risk of having to keep it up in secondary as well. Of course if a child has a weak subject, focused tutoring helps but this wholesale 11 plus exam prep is crazy. The problem is you end up joining in, so your child isn’t disadvantaged.

Ok so this seems to have turned into a slightly weird 'am I lying about my child's school' thread, but to explain, the grades the children are given in my DCs year are set internally. 'C' is 'meeting expectations', 'B' is 'above expectations' and 'A' is 'flipping brilliant'. Of course not all children are at the same level, so not all are 'A' students (wouldn't this be true at any school?). My understanding is that the majority are somewhere around a 'C', which is considered a 'pass' (i.e. no intervention needed). The teaching is up to scratch, I'm not questioning that (as I said up the thread, I'm very happy with the school, otherwise I wouldn't be paying for it).

Ok so this seems to have turned into a slightly weird 'am I lying about my child's school' thread, but to explain, the grades the children are given in my DCs year are set internally. 'C' is 'meeting expectations', 'B' is 'above expectations' and 'A' is 'flipping brilliant'.

Sorry - I didn't think you were lying! I was just confused, because on the face of it, an average grade of a C is not great in an academically selective school. But I was assuming that grades were awarded based on an objective measure of attainment, not on how well someone is doing in relation to expectations. So thank you for clearing that up!

It's not surprising then that most are at a C - any higher would presumably mean that the expectations are wrong.

@Tutorhelpneeded you are not making it up! I know several dc in various years at top boarding schools. All are tutored. Our tutor has dc at top boarding schools.

I naively thought it all ended when they went to BS but nope. Tutoring is rife. It is what is is and had I had known I would have accepted it and got tutors earlier.

@pinkpiggypuffs are they tutoring because they can't keep up / aren't able or in attempt to get a leg-up / think everyone else is?

No worries! That makes sense.

@Tutorhelpneeded I think that's kind of the point -- you don't need to spend any (significant) money, just time. There shouldn't be anything on the 11+ that is too difficult for you to understand, and tutors don't have any kind of magic powder or teaching ability that you're unable to do yourself. The main ingredients are patience, positive reinforcement and stimulating curiosity and a love of learning.

Sure, it would be great if our school fees could deal with this, but we don't live in a world where "work to rule" is sufficient to excel and maximise one's potential. If your kid wants to be successful musically, they'll need to put in extra work on music (and hopefully enjoy it or come to enjoy it). The same goes for anything else, whether it be academics, sport, business, etc.

Extra money isn't necessarily required, but extra work definitely is.

Thanks for this, and just to be clear, DC won't be doing the 11+. For then it'll be the school's own assessments (starting in year 5) plus common entrance to get into the senior school.

"but we don't live in a world where "work to rule" is sufficient to excel and maximise one's potential. If your kid wants to be successful musically, they'll need to put in extra work on music (and hopefully enjoy it or come to enjoy it). The same goes for anything else, whether it be academics, sport, business, etc.

Extra money isn't necessarily required, but extra work definitely is"

This is so true, yet somewhere in MN you would find sth like: if your child practice 10 minutes per day on average, you could hear music in the ear in no time.

"Thanks for this, and just to be clear, DC won't be doing the 11+. For then it'll be the school's own assessments (starting in year 5) plus common entrance to get into the senior school."

Do you know how many children in your prep will fail the own assessment or CE to the senior school in the past years?

If yours are not near the broader line not sure why you should be worried if you keep up the good work.

No, school are deliberately vague about this and I don't know anyone with children who've been through the entrance process to ask. I'm not immediately worried about senior school entry (although that obviously is the aim) but just want DC to be on a level playing field going into years 4 & 5.

@SoTedious

Read my sentance again and tell me what blows your mind about it?

Its never been acceptable (in my view) to expect schools to educate your children, the fees I pay for Prep are for small classes, excellent facilities, for having well stocked large library, dedicated music teaching, tennis coach etc, etc, its not to handle all educational needs of my child. That's my job.

Place an academically very average child with awful parents whose idea of reading is Harper Bazaar, into the top Prep in the UK, what do you get?

OP if you're giving time to your DC, you don't need a tutor, its that simple. Just do what you're doing, try and source past papers of your target schools and invest a few quid of the Bond books from Ebay. If you need a 1st class Oxford grad with 20 years expereince to come to your home and charge you a fortune , that's great , but its very similar to getting fit. You can run in the park and use Youtube for nowt, or you can join an expensive gym in Mayfair and have a personal trainer come to your home, the result is still largely the same.

The top schools will want a child that shines when they meet them, a child that can discuss the partygate scandal or if we should still have a royal family, you can't tutor for a well rounded exceptional child, you can only nurture a child like that. That's even if your child is suitable for an elite school in the first place, it could be a terrible idea.

The elephant in the room is many wealthy parents want the very best for their children , when in reality they aren't the very best academically , so they seek help and they are willing to pay big . The US scandal of rich parents basically cheating to gain their not so bright children into top US universities shows the lengths some parents are willing to go.

"a child that can discuss the partygate scandal or if we should still have a royal family"

Yes, some schools did discuss these questions during interview, I see no point to prep or fake.
Only parents (or Oxbridge Chaperone for the rich) invest time with the kids to explore these issues regularly can stimulate the child individual thinkings.

"The elephant in the room is many wealthy parents want the very best for their children"

Think some of these parents not only want the very best for their children, the success of their children is the accolade of their social status - some are willing to go far ahead at any cost.

@Tutorhelpneeded
Tutor all the way otherwise how are they going to be the best they can at Oxbridge, and if you think the UK schooling levels are too much, there's other schools around the world that put in more hours than the UK does, I believe

True, Singapore primary school 45 mins maths homework daily, 45 mins laug like Mandarin homework, plus tutor for extra Maths so by the age of 11+, they could sit GCSE Maths and get a 6. They cover less Maths topics to UK curriculum but goes over it and in-depth at a deeper level.
Also, there is music daily practice of 1 hour to get diploma at 13 years old and Book club with essays.
They will be looking at UK and US universities applications.

US top schools have lots of enrichment classes and tutoring happens during summer camps, coding focus for 3 months or music camps for 3 months. Also, tutoring to discover their passion like extra art classes during long summer holidays. We know kids going to baseball camps with eye on sport scholarships every year during summer.