How small is too small a school?

[Swansandcygnets]

Probably the best option for us is a small church primary school that is tiny - reception, years 1 and 2 are taught together, then years 3 and 4 and then 5 and 6.

It seems a lovely school but I’m just concerned that such a small setting could mean difficulties with friendships and social groups. The other problem is that the feeder secondary school is enormous - one of the biggest in the whole country! It might be a bit of a culture shock when the time comes!

Any thoughts about this?

One of mine goes to a school like this and it's lovely. But it's in s very weatherly area and the parents make up any funding shortfall. Currently they are installing aircon in one of the classrooms that gets too hot. The head is lovely and competent. They get loads of outside vendors to run the after school clubs so there's a decent choice. There is a breakfast club and after school club.

Ds smallest school wasn't much bigger than what you've said and it was awful for him friendship wise. It wasn't good and I wish I had never put him there because of how badly he was treated. Moved him after less than a year.

I went to a school like this (max 50 pupils at any one time). There were some positives - lots of one on one attention from teachers, we had things like a veg patch and conservation garden and would go on nature walks, and to see the lambing at the local farm etc. It was easier for teachers to ensure everyone had a good part in the nativity and school plays and so on because there was such a small pool of options. There was also a nice sense of community.

Main negative for me was friendship related. There were 6 of us in my year and only one other girl who I had absolutely nothing in common with. Same with the two girls in the year above. I didn't have a close connection with any of the boys either. I was friends with the two girls in the year below but because of the way the classes worked that meant I only ever had friends in class every second year.

Other negatives would probably be lack of resources - barely any books, sports equipment was basically netballs and footballs plus gym mats. Also there were literally no extracurricular activities whatsoever.

In a school of 100 there might be fewer issues though?

Dc went to a school with under 60. Reception, year 1 and 2 taught together, then 3and 4 together then 5 and 6 together. It had a fantastic family feel, kids got on and they had lots of opportunities. However we did find in year 6 youngest ds found it hard with friendships as there were only 5 boys in his year. He was ready to move on and have a wider friendship group. Both boys did gain from having such a close knit feel.

There are many schools around that size near me and the children do just fine but obviously no one can say how one specific child will get on

There are too many factors to be able to say with any certainty for each individual child

This is why I'm avoiding the smaller village schools.

I went to a very small primary school - fewer than 30 pupils in total - just two classes, infants and juniors. It was fine (I mean, I knew nothing else I guess!) - the transition to a large secondary school was a big difference, but I don't remember finding it particularly difficult. Friendship cliques were a problem though - if you fell out with anybody, you'd pretty much spend the day on your own...

My son goes to a tiny school - he’s only in reception but did also attend nursery a few days a week there. It’s early days but he’s doing great. He’s an August born so having a smaller class has meant he hasn’t been left behind and he’s come on leaps and bounds.
They go on loads of trips and the school seems like a really lovely environment for the kids. The PTA is very involved with fundraising etc.

I also went to a small primary and I can’t remember any issue with friendship groups, we just got on with it, I am still close friends with a male friend from primary now (I’m female and in my 30’s). A friend of mine had a terrible time with friendship groups in her large primary so I don’t think it always follows that more people to choose from helps.

I also went on to a larger secondary and I found the change fine, my Mum at the time was amazed that I wasn’t fazed.

Time will tell but at the moment I feel very happy with our choice!

This sounds very similar to the schools my DC have attended. Tiny primary (approx 60 kids in the whole school) and transferred to huge secondary. I wouldn't have changed their primary school for the world, it was wonderful. Really friendly, family atmosphere, fantastic staff who knew each child really well & supported my DC perfectly. Lots of trips (significantly more residential trips than other schools in the area.) No breakfast club but there was an after school club. The transition to secondary school was fine, lots of support. Lots of children attended small primary schools so they were in the same position & the secondary school were well accustomed to supporting them.
I think it depends on the school to be honest. Don't dismiss it just because it's small, speak to other parents if possible & make sure you visit the school & ask lots of questions.

DS's first school was like this. There were only six boys in the class and the other 5 were all into sports. DS is not.

DS is also September born and they were mostly summer born. He's also fairly clever. I worried about what would happen with the mixed years when he would be the oldest in the class by a long shot. I didn't want him being ignored by the teacher in favour of the younger children who needed catching up.

For this reason I moved him and it was the right decision. He's thriving at his two form entry over subscribed school.

However, I'm still in touch with the Mums at the old school and all their kids are thriving as well. It didn't work for DS, but that doesn't mean that it won't work for your child.

A friend sent her DC to a school with a similar set up and around 30 pupils in total. She was delighted with it and with the relationships with teachers and support staff. It was a training school and I think she thought the turnover of student teachers helped.

What she did say was that the week a family with three DC took a termtime holiday, it was very noticeable.

We had a school of I think 40 to start with which was a nightmare - one class for infants and one for juniors which was just too much.

Changed schools to one with about 80 pupils, so a R/1/2, and then a 2/3/4 and a 4/5/6 class. I think it really matters how well run the school is for this tbh because they did a great job of differentiating, working with the high school for bright children etc but if they hadn't it could have been a problem.

It's not always bad. As ever, you need to look at the specifics of your actual school.
My children went to a village school like this. Basically 2 classes - infants and juniors, though years 3/4 and 5/6 generally worked separately. The PAN is 10, but some year groups were as small as 4 so there were between 40 and 50 children there most of the time my children were there. It was absolutely wonderful and my children had an excellent start to their education. As well as being good academically there were loads of extracurricular activities, both organised for our school alone and as part of the Small Schools Cluster to which it belonged. They entered, and frequently did very well in, everything that was going on in the area. As examples, between them, my children were part of teams that were county junior school champions in hockey, cricket and orienteering, they won the regional Junior Rock Challenge and represented England at the international finals of a major STEM competition, seeing off multiple secondary school teams to qualify. Not bad for a tiny village school in the middle of nowhere. I think my children did more different things than they would at a bigger school where only the best pupils get picked for teams etc and it gave them lots of self confidence to try different things and step outside their comfort zones which is still evident now that they are adults.
Mixed age teaching worked fine for all mine, especially my DD who was extremely good with english but found maths a challenge. The structure of the school made it very easy to accomodate her needs. Nowhere is perfect of course and I know some pupils did have some friendship issues, but my children's year groups all seemed fine. I think they were well prepared to move on when they did, and transition to a big secondary went smoothly. It probably helps that there are a lot of small primaries here so the secondaries are all very used to it.
We had excellent staff and governors, highly engaged parents and community members, plus an absolutely inspiring Head Teacher of course. Not every school is that lucky. But not every tiny school is the miserable under resourced place described in some of these posts either. Go and look at your prospective school, talk to current parents and decide based on what you find. I'm sure there's as much variation within small schools as there is in big ones.

Ours is a similar size, usually 80-90 children total. They officially take 12 each year I think but usually a couple more on appeal. We like it and the mixed classes work well. It certainly doesn't have a negative impact on the older ones in the class and a bright child in the younger year in class can be stretched.

Our school has been flexible over the years too with the division of classes so at times Reception has had the younger half of year 1 with them who then moved up gradually over the year when ready. They were then able to keep the year group that did reception and year 1 through the worst of covid shuts on their own as a class to help them. Essentially the size and flexibility can be fantastic. The kids all know all the teachers too which is lovely.

There are negatives of course. While 2 of my dc formed good friendships there the other didn't and in a school that size they're isn't the scope to find your tribe. They were not bullied, they just never really fitted in.

Like yours the secondary they all tend to go to is much, much bigger with 8 forms in each year! 2 of my dc are there (youngest still in year 6) and none have had problems. The one that didn't have friends at primary has flourished and has a good group now.

My child goes to a small school. Class sizes are about 20 (140 pupils total). It’s better for him because he’s quiet and doesn’t cope well with noise or large groups of people. Each year group has a separate playground area so he’s not being knocked and intimidated by older kids. It’s easier to ensure he integrates because if there are only a dozen boys they all have to play together, it’s harder for one child to be excluded because in a small group the kids have no choice about who to play with.

The other school he could attend has 60 in the reception class which is just too many. There are multiple friendship groups so it’s easier for a child to be excluded. In a big school your child is invisible.

The secondary school is huge but hopefully we won’t have to send him there. We’re hoping by then we can earn enough to go private, or as a last resort we can move house closer to a small but high quality secondary.

Our DD is in a school like this and it's lovely. It's been a really nice school for her to be in, the class sizes are just right and if they need to do something year group specific they break out into smaller working groups.

Now heading into secondary school my only concern has been moving from a small primary to a bigger secondary but the feeder secondary school is actually a small ish one anyway so I think she'll take it in her stride.

Mine went to two small schools due to moving (1 was excellent, 1 was mediocre). There's positive and negatives - less money/ less opportunities to do certain things which bigger schools can provide. Children on the other hand may get more opportunities to do other things because they're a small school (so mine did swimming for two years rather than the one). Good for quiet dc, get noticed more, less likely to go under the radar. Our r/1/2 was in two small classes I'd worry a new reception child would struggle with y2 children (will be a big age gap both sociallyandeducational). It was like a big family (everyone knew everyone) but also reduced friendships ds year only had 3 boys so not great for dynamics. Ours did use the small years to their advantage and did English/maths on ability rather than age which worked well for mine as I had some behind and some advanced. Was a big problem when 2 of the teachers became pregnant at the same time as the headteacher, it was more noticeable than in larger schools. Also bare in mind how they do the classes may change due to baby boom years/new housing in area. Our school changed while mine were there to accommodate these so ended up with r/y1, y1/2, y3/4, y4/5 and y5/6. It was OK the split was done on academic ability which upset some parents but on the whole it worked, parents don't get any say in these things it was just sprung on us in the summer term.
Overall mine did really well in a small school (then went onto a 13 form entry secondary which was a shock but they managed). I'd say its more to do with the individual school/children than size alone.

I did my teacher training placements in 3 different schools that size. If it had been an option I'd have sent my children to one! Loved them. Especially for the younger ones. So much more of an extended family/village atmosphere.

However, my children are at a 2-3 form entry primary (that was until recently separate first and middle schools). There are benefits to this as well, so I've certainly been swayed that both options have their pluses.

We had 12 in a class and wouldn't like to go smaller than that. I wouldn't choose a school with mixed year teaching as I can't see how it work successfully - already have a child in secondary, so have seen the various stages.

Our village school had 30 kids at one point. Our eldest 2 managed well but our last was lost due to only 1 other child in her year group. We moved her to a bigger local school (150 kids) and she was so far behind, I cried when the Head called us in for a chat. Thank god we moved her so she had year 5 and 6 to make friends and catch up.

It doesn't do them any favours academically or socially when year groups are taught together.

My kids went to a "deprived inner city" school with a roll of 90, which was absolutely brilliant thanks to a young energetic and very gifted HT (and the staff she had "collected" and led). Reception was one small class of 14: the rest of the classes were composite multi-age classes where a bright infant could let rip; and a slower older child felt safe and supported and proceed at their own speed. It was the best primary school I've ever seen (as a teacher).

We moved from there to the sticks where the nearest school had a total roll of 9 in one room with one elderly worse-than-mediocre teacher marking time/counting the days to retirement. With only 9 bored kids, she was on bad terms with most of them and their parents and made it crystal clear to me that a sudden 50% increase of pupils would be deeply unwelcome. We also felt it would be unhealthy socially, for our kids to have such limited social scope for friendships.

Instead we enrolled them at the next village's school (roll 120) where they could all find a friend, a variety of teachers etc. Average HT and staff.

Bottom line; if you choose a very small school the staff need to be exceptionally gifted.

My daughter has just started at a small village school. 9 in her class - Reception taught separately and the other classes together (1&2, 3&4 and 5&6). Plenty of staff - at least 1 or 2 teaching assistants in each room alongside the full time teacher. Very nurturing. The older children have lovely relationships with the little ones. Breakfast club and after school club on offer plus other free after school clubs which are different each time. Definitely a positive decision for us as a family.

That's probably because you haven't seen good teachers experienced in teaching mixed classes. I can tell you from personal experience that it can work perfectly.

My dc go to a slightly bigger school, single form intake.
Whilst it's lovely in many ways, it is just too small. There are only 6 girls in my daughters class by a quirk of birth rate, and she finds it claustrophobic, the squabbles are magnified and there aren't many options for playmates (the boys play too rough for her to join in she says).
Although it's a lovely village school and has beautiful playing fields, it's easy to walk to etc I wouldn't choose it again if I had my time over.

My child went to a school of 70 children (Reception - Y4). It was fab.