Is this a normal thing to happen in Reception? (disruptive boy given extra attention) long-ish post

[imaginaryfriend]

I'm going to try to get this in a nutshell but it's quite complicated.

Dd's in Reception with a little boy, I'll call him 'Z' just to make things briefer. Z is a reasonably high achieving boy, he's in the 'top' group at the moment along with dd and 4 other girls, all at roughly the same level (I do parent reading with them once a week so I'm fairly confident about this). Z is an extremely disruptive boy despite being very bright, he's taken up to the Headmaster many times, sent into the 'buddy room', up and down the behaviour ladder. He does some pretty unpleasant things like telling the Muslim girl in the same group that all Muslims are going to go to Hell, telling a physically disabled boy that his built up shoes look 'stupid' and that because he's in a wheelchair he's going to die early. The list is as long as my arm. Dd's always coming home with new tales and Z's frequently the topic of upset for many of the mums whose kids have been physically hurt by him.

So he's a difficult character. The teacher has been giving him one-on-one time for 30 minutes after lunch to 'extend' his literacy and numeracy, a luxury that none of the other children get. Dd, for instance, has had one-on-one reading time with the teacher only once since starting in September when her parent reader was off sick. Z's mum says this is because his behaviour is so bad because he's not challenged enough and he 'plays tricks on people' when he's bored. She believes he's extremely gifted and the school isn't meeting the challenge of his intellect. She has frequent meetings with the teacher to discuss what they can do to give him more yet so far I don't see any change in his behaviour at all.

I, and a number of other mums, are beginning to feel a bit miffed that he gets so much attention when his behaviour is so appalling and that our own children get so little in comparison and I wondered if the teacher's decision to give him this extra tuition was a typical move with a disruptive but bright child. And if so, is it known to work?

I've been wondering whether to see the headmaster about the situation, especially given that dd's parent reader has been away for the last 2 weeks so dd hasn't read to anybody at all for 3 weeks now apart from the group guided reading sessions she does once a week. It seems unfair that the teacher can find 30 minutes once a day for one child and leave others with no time at all for weeks on end.

From what I can gather this is the teacher's first class as she's only just qualified as a teacher.

What would you do? Grin and bear it or go and speak to someone?

Z's mum is very 'pushy', she turns a blind eye to his behaviour problems and is genuinely convinced that it's the school's fault for not keeping him challenged. She said to me the other day that she 'doesn't rate' the teacher. I mentioned that she's getting quite a good deal, especially when there are some children who barely speak English (I listen to the lowest achieving group read and I really feel they could do with the teacher's direction rather than my completely unqualified one) who get no time with the teacher.

It seems to me to be a rather sad condition of our times that the worst behaved child gets the best and the quieter ones who are just getting on with school and doing their best are penalised.

Help me put this in perspective? I've made an appointment to see the teacher next Wednesday and I'd like to go in and say everything in a fair but clear way.

I'm with Peachy. Ds1 gets quite a bit of 'reading time' but it is really 'sitting still time' - which he seriously struggles with. If she tries to do 'sitting still practice' with him when the rest of the class are sitting still and listening nicely, she would never get anything done. She has to fetch him afterwards and tell him what he should be doing.

To someone who hasn't seen his IEP, it would look like he gets extra reading when compared to the rest of the class he doesn't need it - but really, he is just being distracted with a book while the teacher extends the time he has to sit still.

sympathy, you feel hard done by and that's human. I know how you feel.

If the facts of the case are as stated then: the boy's mum appears to have unshakeable belief in Z's abilities and no evidence to the contrary will be accepted by her.
I have experienced similar when child can do no wrong and any antisocial behaviours exhibited are attributed to them being on some higher intellectual plane etc etc.
Ghastly, especially if your child in on the recieving end of the violence.
I suggest that as Z's mother will never accept anything negative about Z ever and therefore is probably telling Z constantly he is better than other kids, so he believes this.
Possible coping strategy: next time Z's mother says he is great and maybe she should put him in a"better" school...agree wholeheartedly and say it really seems as though he is not at home in the school.
She'll want to hear that kind of thing as she will need her rosy view of her child reinforced!!!!! Maybe then she'll put him in another school.

I'd also talk to the teacher about dealing with "attention grabbing" children and express concerns about negative comments concerning disability. This is a difficult situation for all involved.

To me the teacher sounds like she's identified the time (after lunch) that Z is most disruptive and is removing him thus allowing the rest of the class to function.

What she's doing with him is pure speculation. If it was any sort of extension work then a TA would be doing it. The teacher is the only person who would be able to explain exactly what's happening and obviously she isn't going to share that with you. Do you know for a fact that it is every day? Seems a lot.

I do sympathise with you IF but to get you through the next few years try to interpret what your DD is saying instead of believing her versions of events. A child's perception is very black and white. I used to believe EVERYTHING dd1 said and used to go flying in raging and make myself look a complete fool! (How the school ever employed me later is a complete mystery!). You have a legitimate query as to the reading although in my school the once a week guided reading session is considered adequate.

As an example of childrens' misconceptions I said to a 5 year old in my class (I'm a TA) "Well done you're not a Star any more you've gone up to the Planets group". Obviously mum came in to clarify because her DD had come home and matter of factly told mum that Ms Hamster had said she wasn't a star any more . My point is that she'd totally omitted the part about moving up a group!

I agree with Miggsie. You are a parent. Your duty is to look after your own child's interests. If you consider that your child is being short changed because another child is getting all the attention, you have every right, and indeed a responsibility, to say so to the teacher. If you consider that the other child is getting more attention because he is disruptive, raise that issue - it is a legitimate concern as it may affect your own child's behaviour. The teacher will almost certainly not be prepared to discuss any details about the other child with you, but should still listen to your concerns. Nasty remarks about religion and disability are another issue you should raise. It would also be perfectly reasonable to raise with the teacher the fact that others in the class are not having their needs met - you work in the school and should raise your concerns.

Of course I agree with others that you shouldn't be gossipping to other parents, but you're not, are you? You're talking to us precisely because you can't talk freely to the others affected by the situation, aren't you?

Imaginaryfriend,

Not many highachievers like to admit to their childs academic shortcoming. You dont know if he is as bright as you say? His behaviour does not seem to be the behaviour of a bright child.

My friend just got a letter from school saying her son will get 30 minutes daily reading time with the teacher from now on because he is not progressing well enough with his reading. This is not a disruptive boy, I doubt they are assessing him for anything, he is pleasant, normal, shy, well behaved, goes to tennis lessons and karate with my son and has playdates together once a week, so I know him pretty well.

My son is getting 4 reading books per week for homework, not because he is so bright that it is a doodle to get through it, but becausee he needs the extra practice at home with me.

I think you will have to talk to the teacher about your dd and your concerns, but I dont think you can mention that other children get or dont get enough time. Good Luck, it looks like you are in a tough situation.

We had a similiar situation in Reception where there was a boy in my Dt's class who was very bright but incredibly disruptive. He made life difficult for other children to the extent that those other children didnt want to go to school themselves. Coming towards the end of reception he had a TA 3 mornings a week and i remember wondering was it given because of the fact that he was disruptive and not allowing the teacher to get on with dealing with other children as he didnt have a diagnosis. Lots of parents complained about his impact on thir children to the Head and to the teacher. However now in Yr2 he is still disruptive but is being assessed for aspergers and apparantly always had a statement for behavoural issues, hence the 1 to 1 support having been granted from Reception. I think its impossible to know whats going on but I do think you have a right to complain if the situation is having a negative impact on your DD. I also think you have been unfairly critised in some posts. Like many parents at my Dts school, although they were sympathetic to the fact that the particular child had difficulties, they felt that a large portion of the teachers day was spent dealing with this child, at least until a 1 to 1 came on board which presumably happened after a statement was awarded.

I haven't got time to reply to all posts right now but I will later.

Just to clarify - I'm not going on what dd tells me but on what Z's mum said and on what dd and other children have observed and commented on.

Also I know Z is very high achieving, you can tell from his vocabulary, from the work displayed in class / hallways and also as I was reading assistant in his group and he was definitely 'ahead' of most of the others. I wouldn't say he was the highest achieving but definitely in the top 3. I listened to the top group read.

Things are not necessarily NOT what they look like.

Looks like obnoxious pushy mum and not very nice child taking up a lot of attention because of who they are and how attention seeking they are.

Maybe it is just that simple!

Maybe there are SEN type problems but either way you lose by bringing it up I reckon -- people are small minded and if you are right and it IS the first situation (as above) they will not thank you for bringing it to their attention.

But you must must feel you are allowed to bring your daughter's situation to the teacher.

"Looks like obnoxious pushy mum and not very nice child taking up a lot of attention because of who they are and how attention seeking they are."

In which case IF has the issue that the SMT at her school is allowing this. Which is actually far more worrying than Z and his issues.

IF has not said that, I just put together a picture, and that's what it looks like to me. Occam's Razor etc.

In terms of being worrying.. well I think it happens a lot and always will. But IF has to feel she is confidently able to stop it affecting her daughter. She shouldn't go in apologising from the off.

Think I went a bit far. Just wanted to stress in all of this that IF has the right to put her daughter first and shouldn't be nervous of addressing things with the teacher.

Bringing Z into it might have entirely the opposite effect and make the teacher defensive, moving away from any positive thoughts on how the situation can be improved for IF's dd.

cat64 do you acknowledge though that it's possible he doesn't have SEN? He's been assessed twice in Nursery and once at playgroup a few years ago. And you say he doesn't cope in the classroom but I think he does cope. He's really popular with all the boys who look up to him, he's at every party and seems to be at the centre of most events - he read in the Christmas play, he's the class champion 'busy bee' for organising register getting / lunch times etc. Therefore I'm not especially delighted that the teacher gives him 30 minutes attention a day because he already gets the lion's share of attention and the 30 mins doesn't do anything to curb his less savoury behaviour during the rest of the day.

stuffitall, thanks for hanging in there!

I won't mention Z to the teacher, I'm now completely definite about that. I'm going to tell her I'm not happy that dd didn't get her reading book changed for 3 weeks let alone having her reading listened to. And I want to address dd's lack of self esteem. Which will be tricky as dd will be with me during the meeting as it's immediately after school. We'll see.

Got to go to bed (husband rolling eyes at mn vs. him) but think it would be profoundly better without dd -- is that impossible just for half an hour. You have a solid point to start of with over the reading (and don't forget your notebook!)

Got to go to bed (husband rolling eyes at mn vs. him) but think it would be profoundly better without dd -- is that impossible just for half an hour. You have a solid point to start of with over the reading (and don't forget your notebook!)

I agree with stuffit, is there anyway you can have some time where you speak to teacher without DD being around.

Quote " Therefore I'm not especially delighted that the teacher gives him 30 minutes attention a day because he already gets the lion's share of attention and the 30 mins doesn't do anything to curb his less savoury behaviour during the rest of the day. "
Not nice IF, not nice at all!

Why not nice ingles? I used the word delighted as someone said earlier that I ought to be delighted that the teacher gives him 30 mins individual attention a day.

At our reception parent's evening, the teacher sets the children up with cutting and sticking on anouther table.

stuffit, I wish I could but it won't be possible. It will be a brief meeting after school with the teacher. At the parent's evenings the teacher encourages the kids to go and play on the computer while we talk.

colditz, yes, dd's teacher does similar things although the classroom's very small and I'm sure dd's listening in quietly! I'll tell dd that I want to talk about her reading etc. because I think she wants me to anyway as she's been very fed up lately. As for the self esteem stuff I'll have to leave it out I think if dd's listening in.

Could you take an ipod or handheld computer game - anything with headphones - and let dd listen to that so you can talk freely/frankly with teacher?

Agree with Cat. if he's disruptive he needs extra help -he sounds like he needs a bit more than 30 mins a day as well If what he is getting affects your dd directly by removing a teacher than you have a right to complain. If his disruptiveness impinges on your dd's learning then you have a right to complain. But if you go whinging that he gets 30 mins and your dd doesn't then you'll look a nutter so I'd word it carefully.

Eb, that's a great idea but we don't have anything like that. (do you remember meeting me, by the way, a long long time ago at Coram's Fields at a mn summer meet-up? we were going to get together with welshmum and it never happened. I haven't seen welshmum around for a long time) the only thing I can think of is to ask a mum friend to look after dd for 30 mins at school while I chat to the teacher but I'm not sure dd will go for it. She's usually completely desperate to see me at the end of the day.