How much progress in Year 2 England?

[2cleverlovingchildren]

Hi my daughter is in year 1 currently. She was allowed to take the KS1 past exam paper with the year 2s at her school before Christmas. She currently scored 100(maths), 100(SPAG), and 102(reading) marked by the teachers at school.

My question is how many scaled score marks would you expect a child to make in a school year? What mark would I expect her to achieve at the end of year 2?

The scaled score itself isn't the official measure in Y2: it just informs the teacher judgement, which is what officially gets submitted. As such, I'd focus less on the number and more on how your child is assessed currently against year group expectations.

This year is also currently planned to be the last official, compulsory KS1 exams for children so your child will only sit them next year if the school volunteer to do them for their own internal information.

Thank you. I understand all that. I’m trying to get her to sit the exams this May (a year early). And wondering if they did do the exams next year what difference it would make?

The mocks she did at school were 2015 SATS papers. At home she has done 2017-2019 papers and did much better (scored 104, 104 and 108). Don’t know why the school picked 2015 papers.

I’m currently in a bit of a battle with the school as they’re not consistent in what they are proposing to do with her in the future.

I used to teach in a secondary school (pre grade changes) and would expect a standard student to improve by 2/3 of a GCSE grade per year, and an advanced student by a whole grade a year.

Please can someone tell me how much you’d expect someone to improve by over the course of a year at primary school/ KS1, as I have no idea at this level?

Thanks in advance.

Why do you want her to sit them early?

Please can someone tell me how much you’d expect someone to improve by over the course of a year at primary school/ KS1, as I have no idea at this level?

It's not as simple as that as there isn't a set results-ladder-based metric in place like there is with GCSE grades.

Generally speaking, a child who is assessed as working at the age-related standard has made the "correct" level of progress if he/she remains at the age-related standard for the next year group. Similarly, if they were greater depth at the end of Y1, they should also be so at the end of Y2. Children who move from the former to the latter have made more progress that year / Key Stage.

It has been impossible to quantify it at primary when using an end-point metric since the removal of "levels" 8 years ago.

I’m trying to get her to sit the exams this May (a year early). And wondering if they did do the exams next year what difference it would make?

When she sits the exams, whether this year or not or, indeed, whether she even sits the exams at all, will make no difference whatsoever. The results are not an official, externally varied measure. They are there purely to inform teacher judgement. In secondary terms, they are akin to an end of unit test or a mock paper: useful to have but no impact by themselves.

The mocks she did at school were 2015 SATS papers. At home she has done 2017-2019 papers and did much better (scored 104, 104 and 108). Don’t know why the school picked 2015 papers.

Possibly because they have found them to be a more accurate prediction tool or because they know that those papers are the ones parents are least likely to have downloaded and done at home, making the papers useless from a school perspective.

If you are having concerns about your daughters future at the school, having KS1 SATs data is highly unlikely to help you. What exactly are you worried about?

I’m worried about the lack of challenge at the school. They’ve recently failed OFSTED. She could read before starting nursery. She knows all her timestables and can accurately tell the time.

She is doing well at school but I feel it is not because of the school.

They used to have mixed years and she found the work more challenging but due to OFSTED rating have moved back to single year groups and is not sufficiently challenged.

Prior to OFSTED the headteacher had agreed to her taking the mocks and that if she passed them she could then take the real ones a year early. If she passed the real ones that she could then skip an academic year.

However, the headteacher is no longer there. Lots of changes are happening for the better mostly. However, the school are now not agreeing to her taking the real exams a year early or to her skipping an academic year as she “has gaps in her knowledge as she didn’t score 115”. 115 is a perfect score. So I think this unreasonable and that she has still scored over 100 and proven she can do at least a years harder work. The gaps that she has are therefore no more than any other child at the end of year 2 and she’s still not even finished year 1.

Surely primary teachers have targets for their students and expectations just like I used to of my secondary students? What would be a reasonable expectation for progress in a year?

Does her school do baseline assessments at all? That would be a better measurement for where your daughter is currently at.

For example my children's school uses the Star Reading and Star Maths assessments which are adaptive so even if they are in primary school the placement could (in theory) be a lot higher.

Are you hoping to negotiate skipping a year or two?

I want her to sit them early so she can skip an academic year. It was what the school had stipulated as their requirement. Skipping an academic year is at the headteacher’s discretion in any school.

Why do you want her to skip an academic year? Genuine question. I have 2 DD’s who are both significantly exceeding expectations (one in year 4 and one in year 3) and it has never occurred to me to request they skip a year. DD1 didn’t take SATS due to covid but scored 115 on the ‘mocks’, DD2 scored 115 in the actual exams. Both have readings ages of 14. DD1 is apparently working at year 6 level in maths. What is the benefit of skipping an academic year?

My DS did the 2019 maths papers in the February of Yr 1, to help his teacher plan his individual education plan. He scored 52/60 across the two papers (scaled score 109). When he did his actual SATs in Yr 2 he got full marks. Not sure what point there would be to taking them a year early? They just form part of the evidence towards a teacher's assessment at the end of KS1, similar probably to internal tests they do every term to measure progress. Only difference is that most pupils across the country sit the same papers (though they'll be optional from next year anyway as a previous poster mentioned).

I don’t know if they do any baseline assessments. They avoid answering questions like this. They are not keen for her to move year groups. She’s one of the oldest in her year so she wouldn’t be much younger than some of them.

I am intrigued by what you want to achieve by your child sitting year 2 SATs early, an ‘exam’ that is purely for school staff, is unpublished and results usually not shared with parents. From next year it is even becoming optional at KS1 as the date is in essence completely pointless. And is not being used to track progress, only the EYFS baseline, year 6 SATs and GCSE results will be used for that.

I am a KS1 teacher having taught both year 1+2. I have a couple of children in my year 1 class currently that could probably give a SATs paper a good go, but for what reason? 5 is too early to be exposed to exam style questioning and it does not help the child nor prove anything.

I am struggling to understand what you are trying to achieve by pushing for her to sit the paper early, she will not move up a year group as this does not happen in state schools. It is up to the teacher to stretch your child with their writing, with their maths mastery and develop their comprehension and answering skills, not to push for a certain score in a paper. Correct answers only show half the story - has your child developed social skills to interact with her peers, can she play imaginatively, can she hold conversations and enjoy being 5/6 and play. There is no merit in rushing children on they have enough years in school for that, what would happen in year 6 if you push her to do Year 2 SATs now, she will not be able to leave primary early! Even if you are considering private education it is very rare for children to jump years as it can affect sports teams, scholarships etc.

I have a couple of children in my class that did phonics with the year above last year. I have stopped this as we now teach our phonics lessons at different times. It doesn’t mean I am holding the children back, instead I am stretching them to think outside of the box in our phonics lessons, to engage all the learning they know around a particular sound etc.

Honestly, what’s the rush!

I can relate to your concern, been there too!

This is a question that many would ask: would she be ready socially to skip a year?

Another question from me: would skipping a year or two make a difference to her learning?

For my daughter, the answer to both of them were, unfortunately, no, and we kept her with their peer group. She is in Y5 now and we're glad we did this.

Might be different for you, and particularly if the answer to both are yes, it would be great if you could try convincing the current head teacher or get the old HT to help.

To not be bored at school. To feel as if she is learning. She is well behaved but won’t ask for harder work and so she says she’s not learnt anything and is bored. She’s already losing interest in school and doesn’t like going as she isn’t learning anything and feels she’d learn more with me at home. She’s always been eager to learn.

What do you hope to achieve?

Extend her knowledge at home with life experiences. Does she play a musical instrument or do anything else extra curricular?

Skipping a year forever stands her out as the odd one.

Ah ok. I don’t have those concerns as my daughters are stretched in their own year groups. My year 3 does maths with her year 4 sister (they are in sets spanning the whole of lower key stage 2 and both in set 1). They are both in what used to be called ‘gifted and talented’ schemes for literacy and maths.
Maybe moving schools is the answer if she’s not being properly stretched?

Does she enjoy playing with her friends at school, or is she more interested in learning?

I have two children, and both go to see their friends. One of them is an eager learner so does quite a bit of out of school learning, the other one not so keen (but is exceeding expectations in all areas) so I leave her be.

My elder one who is the eager learner has come on a lot with out of school learning, and is in fact doing A level questions for fun.

There are ways to work around boredom I think. Does your daughter know all of the history/geography/science/RE already too? Does she find any of those interesting?

She plays and interacts with everyone- younger, older and same age. She has conversations with all too. She’s always been mature for her age.

I would love to consider private schools and have looked into it but unfortunately all the private schools in Yorkshire and Humber will only give a 25% bursary/grant at max. We cannot afford the other 75% of the fees.

I have had conversations with the local council and the dfe who both agree it’s the headteachers decision to move a child an academic year. It is allowed just unusual.

Unfortunately at the moment the deputy is just acting head with a different academy overseeing for the rest of the academic year until a decision is made on the current schools academy being taken over (not necessarily by the one currently overseeing it at the moment).

She has a lot of friends in the year above and she feels that she would learn more as she is currently doing Maths and English with them just not the other subjects. She is the only child that has been allowed to move to a different class for Maths and English and has been doing this since in nursery at the school.

If she skips a year she'll have to repeat year 6 because no secondary will take her a year early. That will be far more damaging. Step back, you're only seeing the here and now. You're her parent. You need to take the long term view.

If you're not happy with the school move, waiting lists, private, or stretch at home - learn an instrument, read more widely, learn about artists etc

My thoughts exactly. Is she really old in the current year group?

In the politest way, why do you want to rush her ahead of her peers? School is about so much more than academics, so why not keep her life full and interesting and let her enjoy being 'ahead' - the pace will pick up as the years go by and the challenge will increase.

Also I skipped a year group when I was at primary, then had to repeat year 6 when my class moved up to secondary school. That was the most boring year of my life.

She already does out of school clubs such as musical theatre, street dance, trampolining, football with the local sports club and swimming. Swimming have even she swims with 9 year olds doing butterfly. She’s teaching herself the keyboard and she loves anything to do with space - she’s been saying since she was 3 years old that she either wants to be an astronaut or a brain surgeon. She’s determined that she will do this and no matter how much people have tried to put her off she’s still focused and tells everyone that if she tries her best that’s all that anyone can ask and that she will try and work hard to do it. So who am I to stop her?

That's great! Could she work on it at home? She wouldn't learn that at school even if she skipped a year. Honestly, if she is very advanced, a year or two would not make any difference and as others say repeating year 6 would be hell..!!

As I have said I have been in touch with the council and the DfE. She can move to year 7 a year early if she moves school years early enough as she will have been with that class more than her own academic year.

She can then take her GCSEs early too. The secondary school has a sixth form so she would then do 3-4 years of A level work before starting uni at the correct age. I have this all confirmed. I have looked at her future.

Have you looked at universities that require students to have taken A levels at the correct timing? If I'm not mistaken I believe Oxbridge are quite specific about this and A levels will also need to be taken during the same year.

And when she is into doing A levels she wouldn't want to spend on them for 3-4 years. She would be incredibly bored. Again, look into unis for requirements on when a levels should be taken