How much progress in Year 2 England?

[2cleverlovingchildren]

Hi my daughter is in year 1 currently. She was allowed to take the KS1 past exam paper with the year 2s at her school before Christmas. She currently scored 100(maths), 100(SPAG), and 102(reading) marked by the teachers at school.

My question is how many scaled score marks would you expect a child to make in a school year? What mark would I expect her to achieve at the end of year 2?

Then would a different state school be a better option? Mine are at a state school and there are a number of children working at a level far beyond their current year group, and they’re stretched accordingly.

Why is it poor child?

She has a love of learning. She does lots of extracurricular activities. She has play dates most weeks and birthday parties even more frequent (5 since being back since Christmas).

What is wrong with wanting your child to be challenged at school?

Do you understand how upsetting it is as a parent for them to come home frustrated from the lack of learning and challenge and not to want to go to school?

If she became a school refuser (my concern) she’d be mixing a lot less. Better to give her what she wants and is capable of than to have her not at school at all.

Well yes moving school would be a much better option. She's a year ahead, that's all. Not some Ruth Lawrence type genius. A lot of primaries will have several children at her level in her year.

If she is already in year above for maths and English and still got expected in KS1 I doubt she would be taking GCSEs early.

My younger daughter (the one who is not fussed about learning) is in year 2 and can do long divisions, reading age a few years above her current age, but I've never thought of moving her up a year, let alone planning her years in secondary school.

I would personally move her out of a school that's failed ofsted. End of.

Fantastic, I had already noted you were a teacher but many are still not sure on what consolidation is.

In that case I think you are well aware that the education system doesn’t cater very well for children like your daughter and jumping a year group or 2 (to never move back down) is never going to solve anything as soon that will become too easy. You are kidding yourself if you think this is the answer and I hugely feel for your daughter socially. Whilst it is fine now, just stop and pause for a second and think about:

• boyfriends
• drinking age
• provisional driving licenses and first cars
• age of sexual consent
• age of going into town alone with friends
• partys - they all have alcohol from the early teens and your daughter will be younger still …
• peers taking drugs/ vaping etc
• first jobs

Your current plan is setting her up to become very socially isolated and feel alone and even more excluded (and she will likely start to notice she is brighter than her peers excluding her further still)

I truly think you need to look at the wider picture and give her breadth of experiences, museums, research projects, construction challenges. Feed her mind but not with harder material. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to fill her with general knowledge and important people from history, American states, world flags, capital cities. All the trivia questions that most of us can only dream of knowing all about.

if your daughter truly truly wants to be a brain surgeon you absolutely cannot study medicine until age 18 due to confidentiality and placements, therefore she will be waiting around until she is old enough. What a pointless exercise in racing for something she won’t be old enough to access …

Hi,
I don’t know much about skipping forward a year in primary school, but I do know schools cannot keep students for 3-4 years at A Level. I’ve led two sixth forms, and places are only funded:

• until students have completed a level 3 qualification
• up to three years if a student is repeating y12 I.e. they didn’t actually complete any level 3 qualifications
• funding used to be discretionary beyond first entry level 3 qualifications but they has been eroded over the last few years and I can’t remember seeing it since about 2017.

There have been occasional times when a Headteacher can decide to retain a student post level 3 because of exceptional circumstances without any funding (the ones I’m aware of have been the student getting cancer, a parent dying and significant mental health issues). However, I doubt this would apply for your child because this was a planned decision to try and complete A Levels over several years.

Everything other posters have said about universities requesting A Levels sat in a single year is also absolutely correct in my experience.

Finally, the parent of a bright y1 child in me just wanted to add how marvellous it is that your child is finding school such a breeze. Mine is thriving on feeling good at learning, at generally not having to think much in lessons so that she can concentrate on being curious about the world and having fun with her friends.

I would not want to do anything to compromise her growing confidence by sitting (soon to be scrapped tests as they are flawed in terms of valid measures of ascertaining success) or by putting her into an environment where she doesn’t feel ‘on top’.

Also, while she may be fine socially now, your experience of teenagers will mean you likely know that things that don’t matter much to adults matter enormously to them. Things like probably getting your periods later, maybe getting a job, looking younger, being able to drive later, and all sorts of other things really matter to girls, and so being able to cope socially now may look very different at secondary school.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Are there any other schools in the area that might cater to her needs better? I wouldn't consider trying to move DS up a year, he's exactly where he needs to be socially, but I do get where you're coming from with wanting your DD to be taught at an appropriate level. I was the bright September born child once upon a time, and was much happier whenever I was (temporarily) with the year above. Finding the work too easy throughout school meant I never learnt how to study or revise properly, and my time management skills are fairly nonexistent, having gotten away with being able to leave everything to the last minute for so long.

DS (aged 7) has a reading age of 14+, happily reads unabridged classics like Treasure Island and Alice in Wonderland, and children's adaptions of Shakespeare and Sherlock Holmes. He also loves Dogman and Captain Underpants! His maths knowledge has been assessed to be at Year 6 level, mostly self taught. He's just one of 5 or 6 in his year group working at that level though, (not sure if that's unusual or not, 2 form entry state school in middle class area,) so it's a real shame your DD doesn't have any peers at a similar level to bounce off of. There's lots of backwards and forwards with our school, trying to find what works best for them all. It's not perfect but I at least feel like I'm working with them rather than against them. What works well for us is facilitating interests outside of school, e.g. coding, interesting maths (fractals, factorials, logic puzzles etc), and instrument lessons. Good luck!

Your A level plan doesn't work unless you're funding the last 2 years.

She’s reading the exact same books. She’s only got 29 in her year. The school has a high amount that come from the council estate surrounding it and then the rest come from the much more affluent newer housing developments nearby (10 year old home now but we moved in 2 years ago). The reason for sending her here is the secondary school is outstanding and we live in the new housing estate. Granted there is a further more affluent area about a mile to a mile and a half up the road but we couldn’t afford what we wanted there so this was the compromise.

I’m scared that she will also not develop these needed skills in time management and studying etc. she has complained of being bored all last year and this school year so far. We thought that year 1 would be better suited to her less play and more learning. Whilst it is - she isn’t challenged. When she was in reception she did maths and English with year 2. This year whilst in year 1 she is doing maths and English with year 2. Next year if she isn’t allowed to skip an academic year she will do maths and English as the year 2 student she will then be. She’s bored as she’s already done that work and is being given not to further learn. 14 months ago they assessed her learning in English and said she had a reading age of an 10 and a half year old but the comprehension of an 6 year old. This was a 14 months ago. Nothing since. I know her comprehension has now significantly improved.

We could save and find those years. We just can’t afford private school. So it’s a compromise we can afford.

I skipped Year 1 when I was at primary school and remained a year above - leaving school and starting university at 17. Not sure if that would be allowed now though! I hated it - and my parents in hindsight said it was a huge mistake. I still found the work easy all the way through school and socially struggled - especially with driving, going out at 18 etc. I was also miserable at university. I wish I had just kept up an extra curricular activity to a higher level (e.g. sport) and just relaxed into feeling lucky that I found school easy. I still had an intense work ethic and worked really hard so it never made me complacent!

All that long post to say - I would never recommend skipping a year to anyone. Thought it might be useful to have the "child" perspective on this.

Funding 2 years in 10+ years time is doable. Funding the next (year let alone) 12 years of her education immediately isn’t.

Thanks for that. That is useful.

However, two questions. What were your thoughts before you moved year groups?

What would you do if despite challenging extracurricular activities and your child was bored/underachieving (as she and I both know she didn’t try on this mocks) was being complacent and it’s starting to impact on her well-being?

Why was she doing maths and English with year 2 in reception? Your idea or the school's?

It's completely inappropriate and they should be challenging her within her own lessons.

Every schools has more able and gifted children. Some teach them better than others. From what you've said, this school is not doing a good job with your daughter.

You can move her if there are spaces in her year group in other schools. It doesn't have to be the nearest school. Do that. Stop making demands about moving year groups. Just get her to a school that knows how to challenge and provide genuine depth. She will be bored throughout school unless she is challenged consistently. Year 2 won't challenge her for long - she has a comprehension age well beyond Year 2, as you've said.

Why was she doing maths and English with year 2 in reception? Your idea or the school's?

This is where it all started. It was the schools idea. They said that she was bored in Reception and could clearly do the work. She was in the top 5 of the year 2 class then but obviously they’re now year 3s and so she has just been sitting at the top complacently ever since, doing the same work yet again.

This? Is it just that you can boast how clever she is , taking her "exams" early? Nowhere near an exam btw.

Yeah, poor idea and now it's obvious why. I experienced similar in school - acceleration but not challenge.

Did it do me long term harm? Yes and no. I did well throughout school and was probably somewhat cocky and bored with it all. When I hit a point in education that wasn't easy, I didn't have the skills to deal with it. But I worked through that time and as an adult I very much do have those skills. I'm still clever but it's definitely a more useful kind of clever now.

Acceleration really won't be much of a solution. As I said before, focus your "arguments" with school on how will they challenge her. I am a teacher. It's not easy to do so but it is possible. Projects, nrich challenges for maths, extended reading and writing, asking her to read something and report back on it to the class or another class, maybe an old school textbook from higher year groups than year 2 (probably for home this one, not school).

You have no idea at 6 years old what she will be like at 16. This forward planning and pressure of expectation is ridiculous.
If she is ‘bored’, teach her how not to be. Is she imaginative? She could be thinking up whole worlds in her mind after she completes her year 1 phonics work. Or inventing a new space rocket, or designing a computer game, or discovering mathematical formulae.
If, as you say, other local schools tell you they will offer less, then supporting your current school’s efforts might’ve your best option.
If your child is being assessed by an Ed psych in two weeks, this is great and could offer the school lots of advice.

My DD is very bright, although slightly stronger in reading/writing, which feels easier to stretch. First 2 terms of year 1 she was very bored. It then started to improve. The expectations in year 2 seem much higher. The work is still easy and she has had full marks on most tests, but they require some work e.g. more challenging spellings, she is currently doing her 13 times table! She is interested in the topic work e.g. learning about London and building models of buildings, writing lots about it. I worry she never experiences 'failure' but she is not the strongest artist and there are occasionally competitions which others win, which is an experience in managing disappointment. I wouldn't want her accelerated, but she does have a peer group working at a similar level to her.

I was strong at maths and was at a primary school which tried to stretch me quite well. I got a level 6 in my KS2 SATS. I went to a superselective grammar school and was still bored to tears through year 7. Maths remained really easy, and only became a bit challenging in year 13. Of course your DD is bored doing year 2 Maths multiple times! I don't know that accelerating a year will help hugely.

Where we live, grade skipping isn't possible (I'm overseas). My eldest was several years ahead in maths, reading and science in KS1. Now they are about to start high school and they are a lot more balanced across all subjects (even the 'boring' ones from KS1 that they coasted in).

Mandarin lessons for our non-native speaking children has proven to be a great extension activity though. Very challenging, provides a lot of structure for studying habits and the kids sit annual exams.

A few years on from you, I would just say that in my experience alone, our advanced KS1 kid has seen many peers catch up or pass them in academics. Skipping grades in Year 1 or 2 would have been a very bad move for our kid - they would be falling backwards and losing confidence in their learning. Think carefully about the future, OP. All the best.

Please can someone tell me how much you’d expect someone to improve by over the course of a year at primary school/ KS1, as I have no idea at this level?

I thought this year was the last year of the KS1 SATs, so nobody will be sitting them next year anyway?

Skipping a year doesn’t solve anything. Believe me. It really doesn’t. She’ll still be bored if the school doesn’t challenge her properly, because the difference between the average in year groups isn’t big enough. It can also create other issues later on.
I was moved up. The experience means I’d never consider it for my children.

It’s optional next year. It’s for the school to decide.

Have a look into the organisation Potential Plus UK if you haven't already. They might be able to give you and the school some advice. There's also a Facebook group full of parents of children like your DD called Parenting High Potential if you're on Facebook 🙂

I can’t imagine many schools will be doing them.