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Original poster

Failing the phonics screening

273 replies

Falcon1 · 25/02/2022 16:49

I've just been informed by DD's school (because I asked) that she only got 21 out of 40 in her phonics screening in December. The pass mark was 32. She is Year 2 (the test was delayed due to covid). She's below expectations in reading and writing and really hates/struggles with reading. Her spelling seems to suggest a lack of basic phonic knowledge. For instance, she recently spelt favourite as 'fafrt' and colour as 'coley'. My question is, is this score (and her struggles) indicative of something like dyslexia, or could she just be a bit of a late developer? I've been concerned about her progress since reception but I keep being told not to worry, lockdown has had an impact on their learning, she'll get it eventually etc etc. The school said they categorically do not support dyslexia assessments as the council won't fund them. I listen to her read every day (which is like pulling teeth as she hates it so much) and I read to her a different book at bedtime, and always have done. We have a reading chest subscription, play phonics games and do Reading Eggs (which she also hates). It just doesn't seem to be sinking in.

OP posts:
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Choppingonions · 03/03/2022 10:10

There are a lot of views here that must have been sorely disappointed by the recent research into how effective an intense focus on phonics has actually been in, y'know, helping children read. Outcomes and all that.

Feenie · 03/03/2022 10:29

If you are referring to the report I think you are, it has been widely demolished for its efficacy and ethics. It was appalling.

Calennig · 03/03/2022 11:13

@Elisheva

The thing that bothers me the most about this is the automatic assumption- by schools, parents, EPs, everyone, that there is something ‘wrong’ with the child. This child is not learning to read - what is ‘wrong’ with them? Is it dyslexia? Their eyesight? APD? Processing? I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a school who says, this child is not learning to read - what is wrong with their teacher.
It can be the same with maths they have a "maths brain" or don't have a "maths brain". While I get natural ability may vary I think that can easily become a self-fulling prophecy.

I don't think spelling teaching really happened in their first primary - it was all emergent spelling and spelling tests - so good spellers got good marks every week and poor spellers stayed poor. DD2 English teacher is currently doing this- write these words out ten times - same kids every week get poor marks and they just move on.

As a parent I asked questions - was often reassured everything was fine until it suddenly wasn't. Their first primary insisted they used phonics - they didn't it was mixed methods though there was a sudden interest in phonics around the phonics test time.

wtftodo · 03/03/2022 12:28

Echo suggestions to get her tested for glue ear. The way she mishears sounds is just like my oldest (who was luckily treated before starting school). It can come and go as others have said; needs a full specialist hearing test through ENT.

Also def apply for private screening. In south london it’s about £100 and around a month wait max.

wtftodo · 03/03/2022 12:30

And avoid reading eggs, especially if she hates it; it’s American anyway so not truly phonics as taught in U.K. schools. Can confuse an already confused child.

drspouse · 03/03/2022 13:32

@Feenie

If you are referring to the report I think you are, it has been widely demolished for its efficacy and ethics. It was appalling.
Do you have a link to that? I was looking at something which I think is that but wasn't quite sure what it was saying.
Choppingonions · 03/03/2022 14:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Feenie · 03/03/2022 16:06

Here you go, drspouse:

iferi.org/iferi_forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1431

Feenie · 03/03/2022 16:08

@choppingonions Because we know that it’s entirely possible to teach every child to read and sick of the myths still peddled by teachers who make excuses instead of trying their hardest to find out how it can be done.

I won’t apologise for being passionate about wanting to make sure every child can read and can back up everything I say with a wealth of evidence based research.

I’m also not going to let misinformation remain on any reading/dyslexia thread without challenge and backed up evidence. It’s too important.

Choppingonions · 03/03/2022 17:11

Yes but you pick and choose the evidence you like!!! And you're not the only experienced teacher on the thread, yet we're ALL learning. You are somewhat off-putting to parents who are scared-perhaps soften your manner and don't assume everyone is in a position to understand your research and respond as you would.

SharesinClarks · 03/03/2022 17:29

www.lexiauk.co.uk/

This is a program used in schools. Might be worth a look to help.

ancientgran · 03/03/2022 17:32

@frontup

I am a teacher of special needs and have taught literacy for 30 years. Phonics is excellent and 99% of children will learn to read with it. However, some children don't and their lack of progress whether because of a dyslexic type issue; a language issue or a processing issue causes them great stress and leads to hating reading and often by extension writing. I work with year 3 and 4 children who have failed to learn to read and initially I use a sight words programme called Words First from www.shop-soundlearning.co.uk. The first story is based on just 12 high frequency words which are taught before reading the book. The scheme is supported by word learning; comprehension and writing packs. The children I've used it with have been successful and it has been possible to re-introduce phonics which are needed for decoding and spelling.
I think this sums up what is so disheartening to people who know that 1% and are constantly told that the answer to "not getting phonics" is to do more and more phonics until the child has a complete aversion to reading.

The 1% need to count, need to be considered but people are so closed minded about it.

I can't think of anything where people get so fixated on one method and then it changes. I'm old enough to remember phonics, the look say, the ITA, the real books, back to phonics, with every one of those we were told "this is the answer" and if we use this method every child will read fluently. Then they moved onto the next miracle system.

AuntieStella · 03/03/2022 17:43

Then they moved onto the next miracle system

And mercifully now it has stopped.

Phonics was the only way for centuries. Then there was a rash of shiny new initiatives from about the 1960s. And they have over time been shown to be less effective than the old traditional way. I really hope there aren't any more new miracle systems. Because if it ain't broke, don't fix it

Feenie · 03/03/2022 17:51

That’s a load of bollocks, @choppingonions - everything you say can be refuted by anyone with half a brain reading the links if they so wish.

ancientgran · 03/03/2022 18:01

@AuntieStella

Then they moved onto the next miracle system

And mercifully now it has stopped.

Phonics was the only way for centuries. Then there was a rash of shiny new initiatives from about the 1960s. And they have over time been shown to be less effective than the old traditional way. I really hope there aren't any more new miracle systems. Because if it ain't broke, don't fix it

Has it stopped? No one will ever look at the 1% and say "We need to do something for them." How shameful.
Feenie · 03/03/2022 18:13

Haven't got 1%, or we would do everything we could - 4 in 30 years equates to about 0.004% by my calculations. We did everything we possibly could for them and their problems were far more than illiteracy. One is very sadly not with us (very low life.expectancy).

Feenie · 03/03/2022 18:20

The history of reading in case anyone has an interest... Wink

logicalincrementalism.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/maggie-downie-on-the-history-of-methods-of-teaching-reading-guest-post/

AuntieStella · 03/03/2022 18:56

Has it stopped? No one will ever look at the 1% and say "We need to do something for them." How shameful

That's not really the same thing though, is it?

Examining how best to support and develop those who are really unable to learn how to access text by matching letters to the sounds of words, is a totally different area of research to that pertaining to what is the best method for nigh-on all DC

ancientgran · 03/03/2022 19:11

@AuntieStella

Has it stopped? No one will ever look at the 1% and say "We need to do something for them." How shameful

That's not really the same thing though, is it?

Examining how best to support and develop those who are really unable to learn how to access text by matching letters to the sounds of words, is a totally different area of research to that pertaining to what is the best method for nigh-on all DC

But this thread is about a child who is struggling, surely talking about how to help the children who aren't achieving with phonics is absolutely appropriate. That is the whole point isn't it?
Feenie · 03/03/2022 19:29

The point for me is that we know how to best help this child, starting with Dancing Bears and, should this OP, or any other parent of a dyslexic child wish to know more about how to help, to recommend the most helpful website I know.

www.dyslexics.org.uk

I think your point is possibly just to snark.

AuntieStella · 03/03/2022 19:32

But this thread is about a child who is struggling, surely talking about how to help the children who aren't achieving with phonics is absolutely appropriate. That is the whole point isn't it?

I thought the thread had developed into a broader discussion by the point at which I posted that. My apologies for the diversion.

WhiteJellycat · 03/03/2022 19:43

Following with interest. My daughter failed her phonics screening too. Both of brothers did reading recovery at school and her other brother cant read or write and turns 10 soon. He is at a SEN school but has a normal IQ so I really understand why he cant read and write if that's the case

Feenie · 03/03/2022 19:57

I’m so sorry. I wish they had gone to my school.

Hoping some of the practical links to help will be useful to you. Flowers

Choppingonions · 03/03/2022 20:09

feenie Your response says it all really. This is not how a teacher should respond.