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Original poster

Failing the phonics screening

273 replies

Falcon1 · 25/02/2022 16:49

I've just been informed by DD's school (because I asked) that she only got 21 out of 40 in her phonics screening in December. The pass mark was 32. She is Year 2 (the test was delayed due to covid). She's below expectations in reading and writing and really hates/struggles with reading. Her spelling seems to suggest a lack of basic phonic knowledge. For instance, she recently spelt favourite as 'fafrt' and colour as 'coley'. My question is, is this score (and her struggles) indicative of something like dyslexia, or could she just be a bit of a late developer? I've been concerned about her progress since reception but I keep being told not to worry, lockdown has had an impact on their learning, she'll get it eventually etc etc. The school said they categorically do not support dyslexia assessments as the council won't fund them. I listen to her read every day (which is like pulling teeth as she hates it so much) and I read to her a different book at bedtime, and always have done. We have a reading chest subscription, play phonics games and do Reading Eggs (which she also hates). It just doesn't seem to be sinking in.

OP posts:
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6
Elisheva · 28/02/2022 08:56

This is poor advice, don’t do this.
Although your DS may have started to read by recognising words by sight, what happened subsequently is that he worked out the phonics code by himself. It is simply impossible to read by memorising all the different words by sight, there are hundreds of thousands of different words in the English language. If a child could genuinely only red by sight then that would mean an adult would have to be with them every time they read as they would have no way of working out the words that they had not previously encountered.

ancientgran · 28/02/2022 09:37

[quote mathanxiety]@ancientgran, I wonder how much of the credit given to synthetic phonics should actually be awarded to parents slogging away night after night, reading to their children, exposing them patiently to page after page of reading while running a finger under the words, and all the other strategies they employ.[/quote]
When my older 2 were keystage 1 I used to say they went to school to have fun and school sent the work home for me to do with them. Reading, spelling lists, times tables so with my younger 2 I kept them home till keystage 2 and I had the fun and the work with them.

Maybe not all schools are the same but definitely my experience.

ancientgran · 28/02/2022 09:39

@Elisheva

This is poor advice, don’t do this. Although your DS may have started to read by recognising words by sight, what happened subsequently is that he worked out the phonics code by himself. It is simply impossible to read by memorising all the different words by sight, there are hundreds of thousands of different words in the English language. If a child could genuinely only red by sight then that would mean an adult would have to be with them every time they read as they would have no way of working out the words that they had not previously encountered.
What's wrong with a word bank that helps with fluency and then moving on to phonics?
Feenie · 28/02/2022 10:30

What’s wrong is that you are using mixed methods which traditionally fail 20% of children - usually the very children having difficulties in the first place.

I’d advise any parent reading this to visit www.dyslexics.org

Feenie · 28/02/2022 10:33

Sorry, pressed post too soon:

www.dyslexics.org.uk/

Here you will find a wealth of research and the best methods to help your child - all backed up and not from some random poster on the internet who doesn’t necessarily know what they are talking about.

Feenie · 28/02/2022 10:38

I should say that the research also fully backs up Elisheva’s posts.

Mischance · 28/02/2022 10:53

If getting her to read to you is like "pulling teeth" then I think you should lay off it. It is setting up a psychological barrier to reading, as she will associate it with being nagged at and a bit of a battle!

Just read to her, and now and again say "That's a funny word - look at how it is spelt" etc. etc. But please do it with a VERY VERY light hand - ENJOYING books is the main aim. I used to say things like - oh that word has two oo's in it - there is another word on the page that has that - can you find it? - ooh well done! etc. etc.

I am a primary school governor and all the teachers tell me that the phonics test is a very blunt instrument that tells them very little. Don't forget that these children have had their education disrupted - nor that if she were in some European countries she would only just be starting school and beginning to tackle these things.

Just make sharing a book FUN!!!

drspouse · 28/02/2022 11:20

if she were in some European countries she would only just be starting school and beginning to tackle these things.

And learning to read a language that isn't such a pain as English. There are just loads more GPCs to learn than in those other languages. Hence why it takes longer.
I don't think that sitting at tables putting your hand up is necessarily the right way to learn when you are 5 but it isn't a bad idea to introduce all the long list of GPCs when younger.

Feenie · 28/02/2022 15:59

Drspouse is bang on, as usual - countries where children learn later tend to have languages where one sound matches one spelling. English is so complex that it takes much longer (cue Mashabell coming in to bang on about spelling reform).

mathanxiety · 28/02/2022 17:23

Dolch words are your friends to boost reading skill and confidence.

www.dolchword.net/printables/All220DolchWordsByGradeFreq.pdf

They are 220 words which are in the categories of 'not phonetically accessible' and also 'most frequently encountered'.

75% of the words a typical child will encounter in reading material aimed at students up to age 7-8 are Dolch words.

mathanxiety · 28/02/2022 17:24

English is so complex that it takes much longer

What makes it so complex, I wonder...

Feenie · 28/02/2022 17:30

The number of alternative graphemes. Only around 6% of English words are genuinely thought to be ‘not phonically accessible’ (a very outdated term btw). These days we thankfully know much more about the complexities of the English language and how best to explicitly teach the alphabetic code.

Feenie · 28/02/2022 17:36

Another recommended website (all backed up by recent research).

mathanxiety · 28/02/2022 20:01

It's a wonder anyone learned to read back in the day.

Feenie · 28/02/2022 20:10

They did, of course - through phonics. Mixed methods were brought in on a whim in the 70s with absolutely no basis in success at all. Luckily, we know much more about the science of reading now.

Those of us who choose to listen, anyway. 😉

Needdoughnuts · 28/02/2022 21:11

@Feenie

Drspouse is bang on, as usual - countries where children learn later tend to have languages where one sound matches one spelling. English is so complex that it takes much longer (cue Mashabell coming in to bang on about spelling reform).
Gosh Mashabell, had forgotten all about her and her ramblings. Confused
Thamesis · 28/02/2022 21:41

OP we used Sounds-Write app and materials. Much clearer for kids and parents imo. I also liked the phonics charts from Phonics International. As an adult, once you get your head round the idea that with English there are about 44 sounds but many ways to spell each sound, it definitely gets easier to understand.

DM me if you like - I had similar issues with my son at primary. Flowers for you - it's hard on the parent too and I well remember the heartbreaking "I'm stupid" conversation on our stairs after school one day.

Yy to Dyslexics.org too - really helped me out.

Thamesis · 28/02/2022 21:46

And just remembered, we used these books too:

Phonicbooks.co.uk

Levels for all abilities, fun, engaging adventures. They do card games too and follow the same principles as Sounds-Write so sound phonics theory too.

ThirdElephant · 28/02/2022 22:00

@mathanxiety

Dolch words are your friends to boost reading skill and confidence.

www.dolchword.net/printables/All220DolchWordsByGradeFreq.pdf

They are 220 words which are in the categories of 'not phonetically accessible' and also 'most frequently encountered'.

75% of the words a typical child will encounter in reading material aimed at students up to age 7-8 are Dolch words.

How are they not phonetically accessible? In the first list I can see red, jump, got, big...
RandomMess · 28/02/2022 22:10

My youngest kept passing her NHS hearing tests then she had a private one

AngryAngryAngryAngryAngry

She had a distorted hearing curve, fortunately treatable.

Also glue ear comes and goes and can speech delay and trouble learning sounds yet on the day hearing is tested is ok.

Also the decibel level at which NHS diagnose hearing loss is much higher than it ought to be and certainly enough to cause hearing and speech issues.

AuntieStella · 01/03/2022 00:37

Rule of thumb: any source that uses 'phonetically' when they only way what they are saying makes any sense is if they mean 'phonemically' or 'phonically' is likely bollocks.

That word list is accessible from the phonic code.

But they might just mean 'contains words which use phonic correspondences which have not yet been formally introduced' (as it is arranged by year group, which suggests a wider teaching programme)

drspouse · 01/03/2022 09:38

I have found that the schools often think that "100 most frequent words" means "can't be sounded out" when it actually just means "most frequent" and they can ALL be sounded out - plus some can be sounded out at the stage the child is at - for example the Twinkl 100 word mat for KS1 includes it, on, dad, can - all very easy to sound out.

Feenie · 01/03/2022 12:21

Lack of training, sadly. There’s a thread by the excellent Charlotte MacKechnie on Twitter about just this subject.