Shall I try to delay DD starting school?

[ThirdElephant]

DD is a summer-born 3 year old and I've got to apply for her school place by January. What I'm not sure of is whether to put her in her normal cohort or apply to delay her a year (so she'd start reception a year later at just-turned five rather than just-turned four). They do this pretty commonly in Scotland but it's not as usual in England and can be difficult to get agreed, though it is becoming more common and the government have promised to make it a parental right to delay and to keep them with their adopted cohort (though they're taking their sweet time about it!) DD was not premature and has no SEND. Academically she is fairly able, but socially I would say she's noticeably behind the older kids in her year and she often gravitates towards those younger than her. I asked if she would like to go to big school with children X, Y and Z or stay at playgroup with children A, B and C and she said she'd prefer playgroup.

The research says that summer borns are 30% more likely to suffer depression as teens/adults than their older peers, which is a large part of the reason I am considering the delay, but the unknown of going against the tide a bit scares me.

Any words of wisdom? WWYD?

what do you think/know what goes on in a reception class ??
it is a play based curriculum with bits of maths/english other stuff done in small chunks throughout the day
then as the year progresses they get more work/tasks to complete till theres less play and more work
they are not at tables like the rest of school

I've got 3 summerborns, 2 started school at just turned 4, the other started at csa. If I could turn back time I would have deferred all of them! I would check out the Facebook page previously mentioned if you haven't already, incredibly helpful. I've never understood why people say they would be bored by doing another year in nursery/preschool, my ds is only 2 weeks older then the oldest September born child, yet no one has ever said that about them.

@LER83

My niece is sept born and was bored shitless for the last year of pre school

My eldest is really struggling now (summerborn) however i do think asd,/adhd but it could just be the stress of trying to keep up
someone recently said her behaviour was worse than the kids 2.5yrs younger. But i guess that is part of rhe issue is she had been eldest in year at least at school she would now be 10 with some kids just 9. Acting say 8 so only 1 year below.
Also when considering clubs and swimming with covid it has probably messed with whether oldest are more advanced.

@HSHorror

My eldest is really struggling now (summerborn) however i do think asd,/adhd but it could just be the stress of trying to keep up someone recently said her behaviour was worse than the kids 2.5yrs younger. But i guess that is part of rhe issue is she had been eldest in year at least at school she would now be 10 with some kids just 9. Acting say 8 so only 1 year below. Also when considering clubs and swimming with covid it has probably messed with whether oldest are more advanced.

Summer borns are 40% more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD and 30% more likely to be diagnosed with intellectual disability, because they're being unfairly compared with older kids.

I’m a teacher, parent of July and August children. If it had been possible, I’d have definitely kept my DD behind a year. It would have made a tremendous difference to her. She is struggling even more now at year 8 than she was in primary school. I did keep her at nursery until the Christmas as she wasn’t at all ready, but she still started in her year group.
DS would also have benefited I think, but I probably wouldn’t have thought that at the time as he was more social and keen.

@Hercisback

Extra year of childhood....? It's not a time travelling machine! You're just delaying school. Most kids are in nursery FT by then anyway.

Haha exactly. Childhood still happens at school... in fact some of the best bits of childhood happen at school! It's not like when they go into reception they are suddenly carrying briefcases and working in an office 🙄

OP where is the proof of your stats
every child has a different intellectual ability just because your born in the summer it doesnt mean you will automatically be below everyone else in the cohort

OP I would strongly suggest you join the Facebook group previously mentioned. It was an invaluable source of information and support when we were going through the process of applying for school entry at CSA for our August born son. He’s now in year 3 and absolutely thriving.

Responses to CSA posts on Mumsnet are nearly always negative. I can’t think for a moment why my son will be upset that he’s the first in his year group to be able to start driving, go to the pub etc. He is only a few days or weeks older than the September borns in his class.

@ThirdElephant

Ask yourself a different question - what is a downside to deferring? Or even - is there a benefit to a child to be the youngest in the year IF you have a choice not to be?

In your palace - I’d ask for deferral and see
if you get it. The way I see it - there is nothing to lose and only to gain by deferral.
There are no medals to ‘going, struggling but making it OK’.
The statistics are very clear - summer kids as a group do worse and struggle more.

Individual stories of being OK aren’t relevant, really. You don’t know how your child will turn out. One can only on broader stats.

My elder is a summer kid, flying academically but socially has always struggled. But it’s not relevant as no kid is the same. If I had a choice - I’d have deferred.
Maybe you do have that choice

I think you know your child. I have two summer borns, eldest will start school in September. Do not feel there is any need to defer. They are bright and in line developmentally with other children at nursery despite being younger. My youngest is still a baby so will make the decision when they are older. I think it’s right that parents have the choice because I can see it’s definitely beneficial for some children, but some children will be ready to go to school. Not that helpful but I guess I am saying go with your gut feeling.

@MMmomDD I think your response is why I left the Facebook group . I actually think my summer born is ready for school, I don’t think she needs another year at nursery and will enjoy school. You come across ( probably unintentionally) as quite militant in the matter. All children are different, it’s quite right you should be able to defer but it is also true that many summer borns a thrive at school too.

I think mine both found that reception is a very gentle introduction to school and it is geared towards children aged 4. I have a September and a May born. The most difficult part was finding things for the elder one to do for the last year before starting school because a lot of the baby signing/toddler group activities were aimed at younger children so it felt like she spent a lot of time treading water. It's hard to look at a 3 year old and think what they'll be like in almost a year's time.

If you defer then she's going to be in a class with children over a year younger than her and the teaching is going to be aimed at children younger than her which she might find boring or patronising. Depends on personality.

@Italiandreams

Militant? Because I referred to data?
Or because you feel that I am judging your personal choices and question your parenting? I am not. Data is not personal.

I do find that people in the U.K. feel strange rush to send kids to school. And then almost brag how their barely 4yos are flying.
But - I’ll say again. No medals.

U.K. starts formal schooling way too young as it is. And at that age difference of 11 months between Sept and Aug kids is huge. And it continues for quite a long time.
All research into kids show that they form a lot of their ideas of self and confidence in yearly age. Which corresponds with primary school age.
So - there is no benefit to being smaller and having more of an uphill battle at the start of the school career.

In the US where it’s easy to defer - there aren’t these discussions. Most people who can - defer. Why not make it easier for the kids?

But you were saying that you couldn’t understand why people do not defer. If the data says for example 40% of summer born children would struggle, that means 60% would be fine and ready for school. You as a parent know which group your child is more likely to be in. I am a primary teacher, I have seen summer borns struggle and they would absolutely benefit from starting the following year.I think a lot can also depend on the school you are sending them too. I have also seen summer borns top of the class, why would you not want them to start school when they are ready? I think it’s an individual choice and it’s up to a parent to weigh it up without it feeling pressured.

Does your child already have friends that are going up or are the friends mainly in the lower year?

This was an important consideration for me. My son had made some good friends in nursery, all three of which were going to reception.

It wasn’t the “but his friends are going so he has to” thinking, but more that he had made (and maintained!) a solid group of friends that he connected with and these friends were September/October born so much older. When they played I could see that although these children were ahead, they often encouraged my child to try new things which brought him on massively. Now in reception, he’s still got the same group of friends and I think you’d struggle to pick him out as the youngest.

I’ll always be conscious he’s emotionally young (even more so than his age) but we chat a lot about feelings as I want him to feel like he can talk to us and be supported.

He’s thriving in reception, although I’m told his attention span is pretty low for a 4 year old! I’ve got a suspicion of high functioning ASD but in no mind to push for it!

Children start school far too early in this country in my opinion.

If you have the option to defer and then start reception the following year I absolutely would.

But you have to just do what you feel most comfortable with. As you can see from some of the heated replies on here, some people seem to get quite het up about it and I'm not sure why.

Good luck with whatever you decide XxX

I don't really understand England's system as live in Scotland but my DD is 4 in April, I couldn't comprehend her starting Primary School the following August 🤯 never mind even younger! She is at Nursery School now, 2021-22, then has a year of Preschool at the same nursery 2022-2023 then will start Primary 1 August 2023 when she is 5 years and 4 months. All government funded for 3 year olds.

Is reception like Preschool?

@Shortpoet

Just check what happens which year she would go into if she delayed starting. Some authorities don’t place in reception and put them in with their peers straight into Y1 (without having had the benefit of reception).

As a blanket policy that is illegal and they will be forced to change it when a parent takes them to tribunal.

There's SO much evidence of the benefits of deferral, OP. I am doing it for my summerborn. She is very academically able but not ready for school emotionally, at just turned 4.

There are really good facebook groups on this topic with very knowledgable people who've been through the process (including transition to secondary). I wouldn't worry about secondary because by the time your child gets there it'll be a well-trodden path and the Government legislation to automatically keep them in cohort will be in place.

Look for the "flexible admissions for summerborns" facebook group. There are links there to all of the data, the legalities, etc. Make your decision based on the evidence, not other people's personal opinions.

@HalloHello

I don't really understand England's system as live in Scotland but my DD is 4 in April, I couldn't comprehend her starting Primary School the following August 🤯 never mind even younger! She is at Nursery School now, 2021-22, then has a year of Preschool at the same nursery 2022-2023 then will start Primary 1 August 2023 when she is 5 years and 4 months. All government funded for 3 year olds.

Is reception like Preschool?

I’d say reception might be quite similar to preschool.

In reception they do start learning (phonics and maths) but they seem to spend so much time doing very similar things to the school nursery with a slight extension. As an example, instead of free-play being totally free choice, they are encouraged more to plan an activity and then report back on how they did. This doesn’t mean it isn’t fun, just that that they need to have a quick chat about what they did. An example is my son decided him and his friend were going to have races on the slide. They reported back who was quicker and how many times they went down after asking for the timer to be put on.

@Italiandreams

But you were saying that you couldn’t understand why people do not defer. If the data says for example 40% of summer born children would struggle, that means 60% would be fine and ready for school. You as a parent know which group your child is more likely to be in. I am a primary teacher, I have seen summer borns struggle and they would absolutely benefit from starting the following year.I think a lot can also depend on the school you are sending them too. I have also seen summer borns top of the class, why would you not want them to start school when they are ready? I think it’s an individual choice and it’s up to a parent to weigh it up without it feeling pressured.

It's not just about whether they struggle at primary school, though. The effects persist into adulthood with poorer average performance at every stage of education, poorer mental health and even lower life expectancy! It does real damage starting school so young, and there is no way to tell if it will cause such problems for your particular child or not at age 4. There are robust, longitudinal studies demonstrating these effects. It's completely understandable that people don't want to take such risks with their child because "they may be fine". They may not!!

I'm an August born and I wish my parents had been able to delay my start. I found socialising difficult and towards the end of my school life it was horrible being the last to get a job, drive or drink. I left school still aged 17 and was in no way ready for uni (though I still went and struggled there too). I would delay her start if you can. I'm not sure what the rush is in getting children to school at barely turned 4.

I’m in Scotland
The cut is Nov - Feb, my daughter is Jan
Long story short- we went for it (against traditional wisdom), she’s the youngest in her class… yes there are girls a full year older than her, and yes you can see a big difference in maturity
But so far (about to finish primary school) she’s been fine, her friends are all 1-2 months older than her (so really not a big difference age wise) - or she gets very well with the older kids in scouts (who are 1-2 years older than her) and the tiny ones in P2… so no indication of keeping her back would have been 100 times better
Now for me a big deciding factor was she was ready, she was asking to go, nursery teachers told me “if she was born 2 weeks early we would not be having this conversation” they had an early years teacher working with them and my daughter was ready - both academically and socially
So I would say talk to the playgroup - see what they say

Glad it's worked for your daughter. But again that isn't a basis for others to decide when there is statistical data available.

As for the "if she'd been born two weeks early we wouldn't be having this conversation" for many summerborns the reverse is true: if they had been born two weeks later, or even two hours in some cases, nobody would be suggesting putting them as a September born into the year above to start school when just turning 4!