Shall I try to delay DD starting school?

[ThirdElephant]

DD is a summer-born 3 year old and I've got to apply for her school place by January. What I'm not sure of is whether to put her in her normal cohort or apply to delay her a year (so she'd start reception a year later at just-turned five rather than just-turned four). They do this pretty commonly in Scotland but it's not as usual in England and can be difficult to get agreed, though it is becoming more common and the government have promised to make it a parental right to delay and to keep them with their adopted cohort (though they're taking their sweet time about it!) DD was not premature and has no SEND. Academically she is fairly able, but socially I would say she's noticeably behind the older kids in her year and she often gravitates towards those younger than her. I asked if she would like to go to big school with children X, Y and Z or stay at playgroup with children A, B and C and she said she'd prefer playgroup.

The research says that summer borns are 30% more likely to suffer depression as teens/adults than their older peers, which is a large part of the reason I am considering the delay, but the unknown of going against the tide a bit scares me.

Any words of wisdom? WWYD?

Might need to get it agreed with secondary too. From previous threads like this the problems arise with ensuring the child remains in the same cohort throughout. One school may agree, another may not.

FWIW it can be tricky if you have a birthday in term time but you are a year older than everyone else. It can create the perception that you were held back on academic grounds not age. It can be a hard thing to deal with.

Reception is mostly fun too. It's still EYFS so doesn't have the same emphasis as year 1. I think you'll be surprised how much they grow up this year.

Just make sure you have all the info. It's possibly that she may have to catch up at some point - skipping year 6 or year 7 to end up in her correct year group. Some schools will hold a place for a year but deferred pupils go straight into year 1.
I don't see the value in deferring personally, there has to be a cut off somewhere and schools should be able to meet the needs off all ages and abilities.

@fluffythedragonslayer

Just make sure you have all the info. It's possibly that she may have to catch up at some point - skipping year 6 or year 7 to end up in her correct year group. Some schools will hold a place for a year but deferred pupils go straight into year 1. I don't see the value in deferring personally, there has to be a cut off somewhere and schools should be able to meet the needs off all ages and abilities.

They basically get an extra year of childhood- seems pretty valuable. They shouldn't have to catch up, but it would add an extra layer of faff when moving to secondary.

I'm not convinced by that argument
ODFOD, it's not an argument.
It's also possible for kids born in September/October to be weak academically...
Do what you like

My son is an end of August Birthday and we deferred him starting school. He started in reception and it was 100% the right decision for him. He was not mature enough to begin school when he should have. The Facebook group for summer born children was a huge help to us at the time. Every child is different and only you know what is great for your child.

Extra year of childhood....? It's not a time travelling machine! You're just delaying school. Most kids are in nursery FT by then anyway.

I seriously considered deferring my late-August born boy. He is also fairly able with no SEND so I had no specific concerns, I just preferred the idea of him being at an advantage rather than (what could be considered) a disadvantage. The school were fairly supportive, and confirmed that if I were to defer he could join the following year's reception class, assuming there was space for him, and he would stay with that group throughout primary. HOWEVER, the school warned me that some (apparently quite a few) secondary schools only allow deferred children to join with their age cohort (so, essentially, they would be forced to join year 8). I assumed the school was making this up to put me off, because I honestly couldn't imagine this happening. I work in a secondary school so I checked with the admissions officer and she confirmed that it is the head's discretion but at my school, with our current head, deferred students are indeed expected to start in year 8. It's something to do with funding and exams I think. This sounds pretty horrific, so it made my mind up for me.

My DS started school in September and is doing really well so I have no regrets at all. I would definitely check whether this could happen in your area... I would have been utterly horrified if I'd deferred him and this resulted in him having to skip year 7 entirely!

My dc is csa.
It's going well. I think they are generally middle of the year and ahead at maths. Very artistic. Still emotional.
Im finding it great with scouts etc though as dc started at 6yo so start y1 (when wouldnt have gotten in until start y2.) and has done communication/cycling/bug hunts etc and has done a year of rainbows already. So has all these social things. And has the school clubs too. They are mixing with the year above rather than dc1 who is mixing with her year until they all leave...

A good playgroup/nursery will be able to stretch a summer born child. They're not exactly that much older than autumn born peers, and it's still the EYFS.

Y1 is where a lot of summer horns struggle, as the formal learning ramps up in most schools. An extra year of EYFS doesn't hurt any child, especially in a country where we start desk work so early.

Primaries have to prove skipping Reception to go straight to Y1 is in a child's best interests, and there's a lot of evidence out there that it isn't. Approach every school you have a chance of getting into, and see how many positive replies you get. That will give you a pool to work with.

As for Secondary, they now have to prove it's in your child's best interests to leave their adopted cohort, which you have every right to dispute. They also won't be in secondary for years, by which point heads will change, attitudes will shift, education policy will look entirely different. So focus on the best decision for now, not for some unknowable future.

Teacher here and don’t base your decision on what your child says. Also, sometimes it’s really obvious who the summer borns are but as someone else has said, sometimes it’s a surprise as they are able to keep up.
My daughter is a summer born and would have been so bored if she’d waited another year, socially has always been quite mature for her age. I know you said your child seems less ready socially but try and watch your child with other children to get a judgement on what they’re like - they might surprise you!

They basically get an extra year of childhood- seems pretty valuable.

What do you imagine reception year is like??
Honestly, I don't see the point in keeping them off school to have an extra year of nursery. There is plenty of play in reception year. It's hardly 'formal education' - or if it is, it's formal education in the way pre school curricula are also formal education.

So focus on the best decision for now, not for some unknowable future.

Isn't the whole point of this decision that it's about unknowable future? For now, the child will likely be happy in nursery or happy in reception. The question is is that the right thing for their teen years and adulthood surely?

Sept babies bets for teachers, get paid two full time summer holidays!

I personally wouldn’t delay; our local schools in England wouldn’t allow your DD to join reception; they’d have to skip to year 1

I had this dilemma with my (now 11yo) ds. I would have loved the choice you have and think it's great you get to choose.
My ds has quite a speech delay (now fine) so when he was joining as one of the youngest in his year, and young for his age, and socially immature thanks to his speech delay I felt like I was throwing him to the lions! It was horrible!!
However his development curve shot up and within a year there was barely a difference between him and his class mates. Now at 11 just started secondary he's ahead of anything and doing great. In fact he was itching to leave primary as was SO ready for bigger challenges, and if I had put him into the lower year back in the day I think he'd have been champing at the bit even more.
My dd on the other hand was mature for her age when she started school, socially adept and as one of the oldest in her year - I was so relaxed about her starting it was lovely. Now she's 9 she's falling behind and it looks like she has some neurodiversity issue going on and might need extra support by the time she gets to secondary.
Both kids polar opposite to what it looked like I could expect in day one of primary.
So what I'm saying is that what the right decision is you will not know until you have the benefit of hindsight.
It is fabulous you have the choice and I wish it was also possible in England (it can be but depends on which county you're in).
Try not to get worked up, you could literally jump either way and likely neither is wrong in the end. Have a think as best you can with the info you've got, it's all you can do and it'll be fine one way or another either way.

As a late summer baby myself with two summer babies I must admit it never mattered one iota to me or my DC. However, I have two GC who are the oldest in their year and I do think it gives them an advantage. MY GD had a 10th birthday party and some of the attendees from her class were only just 9.

@NynaeveSedai

They basically get an extra year of childhood- seems pretty valuable.

What do you imagine reception year is like??
Honestly, I don't see the point in keeping them off school to have an extra year of nursery. There is plenty of play in reception year. It's hardly 'formal education' - or if it is, it's formal education in the way pre school curricula are also formal education.

Yes I agree... reception is very informal isn't it? It's not like they sit in rows at desks...it's mainly play based learning

Best thing I ever did for my dd! Similar situation to yours. Thriving in y1 and hasn't caused any problems. Had to fight for it and that was tough and stressful but that was one year out of her whole education. It's been so so worth it. Will stay in that cohort throughout her education. Life is harder for most of the younger children in the year, there is no doubt about it.

Children are forced into all sorts of age inappropriate stuff too soon these days. If there's no reason not to (which I appreciate in many cases there are) then I would say go for it.

Bear in mind your child won't be able to play on any competitive sports teams with her classmates once she's older. I am summer born and would have been gutted to be held back as I got towards teenage years and essentially had to do everything a year later than I should have been doing.

Anecdotally, a child close to me was held back. Did her no favours whatsoever. Despite being able, she lags well behind now academically, emotionally and socially. She turned seven whilst some of her peers were still five. I would be very concerned if she was my child. Expectations seem incredibly low for her, and she certainly has "benefitted" from being the oldest child in her class. I really hope it evens out for her in time. This is of course one child and you know yours the best. Good luck with this tricky decision

'Bear in mind your child won't be able to play on any competitive sports teams with her classmates once she's older.'

This isn't necessarily true. Many sports (including for eg the FA) are now respecting the cohort the child is actually in. Also, the cut off point varies in many different activities meaning that it varies entirely who ends up being the oldest/getting moved about at different times etc.

There's loads of misinformation in this thread. Head to the Flexible Admissions for Summerborns page on Facebook and do some searches to get the correct and up to date info. This subject always results in much scare mongering and is not generally supported on Mumsnet.

My dc went to primary school in Melbourne where parents with children born between January and March (I think it is) can choose to send their children a year later if they want to if they feel they aren't ready. In my experience the parents feel guilty whichever decision they make!

I think that whilst the older dc are at an advantage in the first couple of years of school this did not seem to be the case as they got older when being more competent than your classmates can be frustrating and lessons and activities that are pitched at a younger level may seem dull.

It’s a very personal decision.

We considered it for my summer born son, as he is quite immature and obviously had been impacted by COVID. We spoke to his school nursery and the teacher was very understanding and supportive but did mention that academically he’d be very ready for the more structured learning of reception and he fitted in well with his “correct” year.

After watching some of the other kids, we decided that our son wasn’t noticeably less mature than them when playing and by Christmas he was making such good progress we were happy with doing the normal intake.

He started reception in September and our most recent parents evening did flag that he sometimes lacked the attention span needed but that they were over the moon with his academic work where he was meeting the end of year goals. The teacher said they were working on the soft skills and would continue to do so.

Overall, I’m so happy I didn’t defer but equally I know I might have been regretting my decision if he wasn’t coping well!

@claymodels

They do this pretty commonly in Scotland but it's not as usual in England

It's not the same in Scotland at all.

Well is not the same in Scotland in that the cut off is 28th Feb so children start school at 4.5 as youngest. However it is common to defer in Scotland, particularly for Jan/Feb born children, who then get another full year funded pre-school hours.

Many children in Scotland who are not deferred end up going to university at 17 straight after S6, or feasibly at 16, if they gain all their Highers in S5. Which could be argued as too young and therefore deferring is very common.

Defer. My ds ended up sitting his exams when he's just turned 15 and wasn't mature enough. He went to uni at 17 and was excluded from a lot of the social life as it mainly centred around bars, then covid hit when he turned 18.
So yes defer if you can it makes such a difference at the other end of their school years.

My twins are17 with end of August birthdays and have just applied for Uni. Took (had they happened!) their GCSE's at 15, A'Levels (fingers crossed) they will still be 17 (2022) but will most definitely be 18 before Uni starts in Oct 2022.