Why do we send children to school so young

[sandcastles1]

Just that really - I'm feeling really disgruntled with our school system and why we make children go into full time education from the age of 4. My dc just started and is enjoying some of it and hating lots of it. She loved the first week when it was half days. For the past four years she has been either with me or her dad - we would take her out into the woods every day. Now she's cooped up in a small room/playground for the whole time. I could have home schooled her I know but didn't think that was the best thing socially. I can see the benefits of them going but 5 days a week 9-330 just seems harsh. Why couldn't it be three days. I know up until 5 we can take them out but just wondering how others feel as I'm missing my daughter a lot, she doesn't want to be there most of the time and I really now see the virtues of other countries that don't start full time until 7. Yes it means we can work, but why is that the norm? People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

.. to know if that would of been the case anyway without an early push. He's not in a private school now.

My daughter is 3 and still non-verbal due to being born profoundly deaf. She now has cochlear implants but hasn't picked up any language yet. She's due to start reception next September despite the fact she shouldn't even technically have turned 4 by then, due to being born 14 weeks prematurely.

She's currently in nursery 2 days a week and is meant to be in the preschool room by now but they have kept her back in toddlers because they don't think she's ready, so god knows how she's supposed to cope in school. I asked the nursery whether it would be possible to still get the 30-hours funding for her to stay in nursery for an additional year, but they said they didn't know!

It's different for every child but it's difficult to fathom how the school could possibly be the best option for mine at such an early stage.

It’s difficult to appreciate how harsh the world was in the past. Kids worked literally from the time they could walk. School is a massive improvement but we still have a long way to go in terms of allowing parents to work less and look after their kids more.

www.boredpanda.com/national-child-labor-committee-collection-lewis-hine-usa/

Your DD is going through a massive transition. For whatever reason she hasn't experienced long periods of time away from you and is now adjusting. So are you. It's only been two weeks, so I think you're prejudging it. Of course she's not fully settled yet. It's a very idealised view to say there should be shorter working hours and less school - many professions simply couldn't function on that system. 'Sorry you've had a car crash, but all police, fire and ambulance personnel are on a 3 day week, so there's nothing we can do.'

Sorry, confusion my fault !

I was saying my own statement was silly. I first of all said that private schools are more geared up for parents because they offer breakfast clubs/after-school care, but of course many state schools do too.

But (and this is what I was trying to clarify) the state school provision doesn't seem to cover standard full-time working hours allowing for commuting time. We're looking at schools atm for next year. What we're finding is that, in many private schools, you can automatically drop off your child from 8am and pick up at 5 or even 6pm without having to organise a space in a club with an external provider or go on a waiting list. Which is clearly very helpful as a working-parent.

For those of you who are interested in the early years of school, dig into whether your schools are starting to adopt a more provision based approach to KS1. I dread to say play based because somebody will come along and say it doesn't challenge their high achieving DC but having taught KS1 (and EYFS and into upper KS2) it's by far the best approach for a more age appropriate way of learning (and adds far more challenge for those who can!).

@mafsfan That's interesting. We have that to start year 1 and tbh I'd thought of it as a post-Covid, ease them in, thing. How does the challenge work, is it by being open-ended? I have a dc who is eg doing number work in the abstract and was wondering if this was the point to switch to pencil and workbook style learning.

They pushed academics early and that approach doesn't sit as easily with the outdoors

I have a friend who chose private for similar reasons. It was exactly the same hothouse as all the other private schools, and was particularly bad at supporting non NT kids (which her son was). They wouldn't let him "graduate" to go into the lower school when he was 6 because he didn't "reach expectations" in his assessment. This was from a school which proudly boasted about not having an entrance exam. She switched him to a more traditional private school and he never had a problem.

Sounds to me like you may have coddled your daughter too much. Or home School her if you want to. Although I’m doubtful home schooled kids get the same experience of quality of education. The ones I know are all decidedly weird.

My daughter started school a few weeks ago and she absolutely adores it. Can’t wait to go, see the new friends she’s made, to play and learn. Picking up at 3pm leaves plenty of time to spend time with her and there’s the whole weekend too. There’ll be holidays galore coming up too.

Agree that you’re insulting a lot of parents by insinuating we don’t want to spend time with our kids because we’re happy to send them to school.

Just because your daughter isn’t ready and you clearly have issues letting go, you shouldn’t make such rude assumptions about others

[quote baggingareaunattended]@BoredZelda I picked a private school for my DS for nursery ( preschool) and I based Thai on their amazing outdoor space and their forest school afternoons. He didn't attend a single forest school session as they were only once a week in reality, and never when he attended as he only did a few mornings. They didn't do free flow so break and after lunch was 15 minutes play outside, so very little time outside. Often when I picked him up it was after lunch break and they had them on the playground not on the equipment as it was muddy. They pushed academics early and that approach doesn't sit as easily with the outdoors, it's totally possible but it's more traditional to sit at a desk and write. He hated it and whilst he has done well at school it's hard to [/quote]
This is true of the private schools in my area too - they have a lot more sit-down, very structured days from much earlier than the state schools do (they also have uniforms that limit play!). The thing is that they're that way because a lot of parents want them to be - it's why a lot of them pick them. Similarly around me the reason a lot of people prefer the (state) school nurseries to private nurseries is because of a perception that they're more school-like, more academic, more structured (someone told me, very scathingly, that they wouldn't send their child to the private nursery my son goes to because 'they just run around playing all day'). The OP might not agree - I'm not sure I do either - but the fact is that a lot of parents if able to choose actively want something that looks formal and 'school-like' as early as possible as they think that's what 'proper' education looks like.

For those of you who are interested in the early years of school, dig into whether your schools are starting to adopt a more provision based approach to KS1

Our local authority introduced this about 4 years ago. Loads of complaints initially because people didn't understand "play based" but seems to be fine now.

I think the difficulty is children vary hugely and its impossible to have a system that suits everyone. The fact that our system in KS1 is v play based and parents have the option of delaying the start especially for the younger children in the year is a lot more flexible than other places. I think a lot of parents may be surprised by how well their children do in school even if they don't sit still/listen well etc at home. I know a few children who have been held back a year/homeschooled and there are positives but also negatives to both decisions. You do you.

Your not allowed to say out loud that your child is not enjoying nursery or school. You will be shouted down by others how their own children absolutely love it. That the problem is with your child, not the nursery, school, or system as a whole, which is not helpful for you.
I would look at the home schooling forums, and go from there.

@Moonface123

Your not allowed to say out loud that your child is not enjoying nursery or school. You will be shouted down by others how their own children absolutely love it. That the problem is with your child, not the nursery, school, or system as a whole, which is not helpful for you. I would look at the home schooling forums, and go from there.

People can say this as they want and choose to homeschool.

No issue at all. As long as the assumption isn’t all children dislike it.

Lots enjoy being with friends, playing and learning etc

@Moonface123

Your not allowed to say out loud that your child is not enjoying nursery or school. You will be shouted down by others how their own children absolutely love it. That the problem is with your child, not the nursery, school, or system as a whole, which is not helpful for you. I would look at the home schooling forums, and go from there.

It’s you’re which is short for you are.

Product of homeschooling perhaps?

@Hardbackwriter

People have this idea that in scandinavia children don't go to school til 7 and Finland still beats UK hands down in the PISA tests so why do we bother?.. Scandinavian nurseries are (generally) much higher quality, cheaper, with better qualified people working in them. The children are learning and socialising in a less structured environment.

Yes, people make it sound like in countries where children don't go to something called 'school' until 6/7 they're all just at home playing in the garden until then. In a lot of those countries a lot more children are in a group setting from 1 or 2 than in the UK and by 4/5 they're doing very similar things to what English children do in reception, they're just doing it in a place called 'kindergarten' or similar.

This. I hate it when people say oh in other countries they don't start school til they're 7. It's rubbish. They generally go full time from much younger than our reception age. It's just called kindergarten, or maternelle or whatever. But it's still full time and often quite structured. I worked in a maternelle in France as a student. Loads of 3 year olds busy learning all day.

@Moonface123

Your not allowed to say out loud that your child is not enjoying nursery or school. You will be shouted down by others how their own children absolutely love it. That the problem is with your child, not the nursery, school, or system as a whole, which is not helpful for you. I would look at the home schooling forums, and go from there.

People have repeatedly suggested that OP look at either home schooling or flexi-schooling, and she's clear she doesn't want that: she wants her DD to do the same as everyone else, but for what that is to change. She still wants a one-size-fits-all system, she just wants the one size to be exactly the size that fits her own child.

@Moonface123

Your not allowed to say out loud that your child is not enjoying nursery or school. You will be shouted down by others how their own children absolutely love it. That the problem is with your child, not the nursery, school, or system as a whole, which is not helpful for you. I would look at the home schooling forums, and go from there.

People can and do say this.

However, we are allowed to acknowledge that they system does actually work for some children and their families.

For us, DS started school at the right time. He was more than ready and thrives in that type of setting. I can also acknowledge that some children struggle.

The OP got lots of peoples back up by suggesting many of us only want to send our children to school so early because we don't want to spend time with them. That was unnecessarily nasty.

@grey12 It absolutely is like nursery. They learn phonics in nursery. The more able ones in ours brought reading books home (before covid). Nothing about reception is particularly different, it's just longer hours.

One of my DC started P1 a few weeks just before he turned 6. Perfect age. I noticed a huge difference in his development. He wasn't ready last year to start school.

I have a couple of friends who live in Sweden and a family member that lives in Denmark. The idea that Scandinavian parents are at home with their children until 7 is wrong, they just have a much better funded pre school system that a lot of kids are in full time from the end of maternity/paternity leave.

@AliceW89

I have a couple of friends who live in Sweden and a family member that lives in Denmark. The idea that Scandinavian parents are at home with their children until 7 is wrong, they just have a much better funded pre school system that a lot of kids are in full time from the end of maternity/paternity leave.

X-post upstream!

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

OP I mean this kindly but why should the whole system be set up so as to suit YOUR child. Plenty of children absolutely thrive in reception, just as it is. I personally think the Monday-Friday routine is consistent and helpful and school days aren’t particularly long. By all means question if the conventional school system is right for your particular child but you seem to be approaching it from the mindset that it’s the system that’s wrong and needs changing just because you think it doesn’t fit your child.

@RobinPenguins

People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

You can fuck off with this.

Couldn't agree more with this!

I'd bloody love to have given my kids the home life you have OP, but needs must and bills need to be paid so they have both therefore been in childcare since they were 9 months.

Tbf, any empathy I had with your post you completely lost at that last line. Not sure if you couldn't have alienated people any more than that!

My son turned 4 at the end of July so was very young when he started school

He was soooo ready for it and loved it - I do think it's down to the individual though, I understand some 4 year olds aren't ready but be mindful some are

He's in year 3 now so I'm not talking this year