Any primary schools with no uniform in London (or anywhere)?

[LewishamMum]

I'm really anti school uniform. I went to a state primary outside London and there was no uniform. I did have to wear uniform from 11-16, but was then back out of it for the sixth form.

I really don't want my DD to wear uniform AT ALL when she starts school. I just think it's silly and wrong and right wing and stifles individuality. Most of the Western World gets on without them, why can't we?

I'm currently in Lewisham, but likely to be moving in the next couple of years in any event, but staying within South London. Seriously, are there any STATE schools, preferably maintained, with absolutely no uniform from 4 to 11?

@minipie

And it's only school - happy for a "uniform" of jeans/leggings and anything goes top, just so long as it's not imposed from above!

Right, so what happens when your kid comes downstairs dressed for school in their fancy party frock? Or in a summer jumpsuit when it’s 8 degrees and raining? You will then need to tell them to go change into something more practical… that’s imposing from above, it’s just from you not the school!

My DCs are perfectly capable of doing this with school uniform. DD would wear her gingham dresses on the coldest April day and DS would wear long sleeves in the height of summer, including his school jumper, and wouldn't be caught dead in shorts.

[quote LewishamMum]@BikeRunSki
I think as someone pointed out earlier it was the Academies what put the nail in the coffin. I do agree with you...in my childhood it was only private schools that had uniform at primary level.
I think a part of it was the generational change. Those with parents born in the 60s were dead against, but when a generation of kids had parents born later the tide turned, and Academies trying to mimic the silliest poshest schools ever made it a certainty.[/quote]
My children were born in 1985 and 1995. So they were in school from 1990. Alway wore uniform. Academies didn’t exist until much later.

I like uniform so that they don't ruin their home clothes with pen, paint etc (or the mud kitchen)
I would be all for this if schools didn't choose white polo shirts. I would never buy my DCs a white t-shirt normally.

ashmead primary, deptford

@drspouse

I like uniform so that they don't ruin their home clothes with pen, paint etc (or the mud kitchen) I would be all for this if schools didn't choose white polo shirts. I would never buy my DCs a white t-shirt normally.

But you can bleach white t polo shirts.

I hadn’t thought of the academy angle I suppose. Our village school (where the dc go/went) has had uniform since at least as long as we’ve lived here (21 years) and it only became an academy 3 or 4 years ago.

'Plus, I really do think it's cruel for 4 year olds'

To be cruel means wilfully causing suffering or pain to others so I fail to understand how wearing a uniform is cruel to a 4 year old. Tell the 10 year old children I've seen bullied and called names because parents can't afford the latest footwear, bags, coats etc what will happen when there is no uniform at all and all of their clothes are scrutinised. Uniform is a great leveller. Nothing right wing about it whatsoever ffs. You're thinking about yourself and not your child.

My kids have been to non uniform primary and uniform primary as we moved. I have taught in uniform and non uniform secondary schools.

I’m with the OP. Non uniform is SO much better, from a teaching and parent POV. Kids wear whatever is clean to school, no ironing, no clothes sitting in the wardrobe worn once or twice at the weekend before becoming too small.

As a teacher, it’s great to be able to get on with teaching instead of sending children home for having the wrong coloured socks. Especially when you know that, for some children, coming into school at all is a massive achievement.

Uniform does not prevent bullying. Schools’ actions prevent bullying.

I didn’t chose our school because of its non-uniform dress code, but it’s been a surprising success. At the moment (covid related) the children have to go to school in their PE kit, and I find it a faff having to make sure the exact PE kit is clean and ready to wear on those days. Normally the children jump out of bed and grab the nearest available t-shirt/sweater/leggings combination. We rarely have a problem getting dressed and I know the children are really comfortable at school.
I have memories of stiff leather school shoes, itchy tights and hot blazers from my own school days.
I have absolutely no problem with uniforms in terms of everyone looking the same, but I think comfort is the key.

'But what about the hassle of uniforms - having to have the "right" Tshirt ready for gym, rather than anyone that will do?
Having to constantly make sure you've got the right version of everything?'

OP it's a bit like working in a job where you wear a uniform or a dress code. You make sure everything is ready. It's really not difficult

Depend where in Lewisham but my kids are at Edmund Waller and there's also Myatts Garden, neither of which have uniform. Clothes have never been an issue in the whole time my kid mmm kids have been there. Most of the boys wear jogging bottoms and hoodies, most of the girls wear leggings and hoodies. A few of the little ones sometimes wear princess dresses. There are rules about shoes being flat but that's about it. My youngest is about to leave Y6 and she and her friends do not think about clothes that much.

I work in a uniform school and although we tell parents not to go to town with the frilly socks and matching hair ribbons, many do and then lose it when their kid comes out of school dirty. Parents put pressure on those kids to always look smart. Kids at EW always look quite ragged but the standard of teaching and learning is amazing.

[quote LewishamMum]@BrizzleMaverick
This may sound weird, but I positively dislike people who are proud of their school. I thought it was weird as a child when people cared about whether their school beat some other school at football or whatever. As an adult I've met too many people, many of them who went to top universities and are members of high ranking professions, who still think their school is more important than anything else even in middle and late age.
I really really don't want them to be proud of their school. Happy yes, but pride suggests an achievement. It is not achievement to go to a particular primary school, and you are no better than others at other schools.[/quote]
You sound bitter.

Having had DC at both uniform and non-uniform schools, I prefer having a uniform and so did they. As long as the uniform is cheap and comfortable and there are no ridiculous rules like wearing blazers in the classroom or regulation hair bobbles etc.

The cost of uniform at primary school was about the same as having extra mufti clothes, possibly a bit cheaper. The main advantage was the school uniform tended to be more hard-wearing and nobody cared if they spilled their lunch or a paint pot down it, or ripped it in the playground. A few faint stains didn't matter or it could be easily replaced, whereas it did matter if it was a favourite jumper or dress bought last year. There was no mental effort or wasted time in choosing an outfit, no arguing over unsuitable choices nor wanting items that were in the wash. I never ever needed to iron school uniform, I just bought non-iron and hung it on a hanger to dry.

Once they were at secondary, there was also an element of clothes becoming a fashion parade/status symbol at the non-uniform school. It was also a lot more expensive than school uniform once they start buying clothes in adult stores from about 12ish.

[quote LewishamMum]@MarshaBradyo
Nope - totally couldn't afford it (I'm single), and anyway I'd be very worried about the socialisation aspect.
I am though just anti formal education before the age of 8ish. Totally pro full time "play schools" from 4 onwards, but just no sitting down in uniform and doing the three Rs. Plenty of time for that, and you learn so much from climbing trees![/quote]
Have you considered applying for a bursary at a Steiner school? it seems like a Steiner education might be aligned with your values.

My friend's kids went to kilmorie- there's no uniform there. It was a bit of a shock to the system to go into uniform at 11.

I am not a fan of uniform either. Why dress five year olds like 1950s office workers? And skirts aren't very practical for small girls who just want to run around. But my daughter has ended up at the best school for her looked at across its whole offering, and it happens to have a uniform. For the past year due to COVID they've been wearing PE kit all the time, which is a better option anyway in my view.

@BikeRunSki

I’m curious to know when uniform became so standard ? I was at primary school in the 1970s/early 80s and many central London state primaries didn’t have uniform. Went to secondary and had uniform for a year, before a new head got rid of it. 20 years later when my dc started school it’s the norm.

I was at primary in the 60s and 70s. We had a uniform, including a tie, but it wasn't compulsory. I wore one but most of my peers didn't. Secondary school from 1974 insisted on uniform but it ended up being a big mess of wear what you like as long as it's blue black or grey. Zero point to that. Either have a uniform or don't.

When my DC1 started school in 1990 the Head said they couldn't enforce uniform at primary level, but all the kids wore it, including the gingham dresses that didn't exist in my time. By the time the last one started in 2011 it was very much compulsory.

The only thing I really don't like is black shoes at primary. (Again seems to be a recent thing that wasn't around in the 90s for primary).

I forgot to add that DC1 would fight me over what to wear, even at 4 years old, so it was really handy to be able to say Mrs X says you have to wear uniform. We did go for beautiful red, blue or purple shoes though

I recently fund a whole school photo from my nineties Primary. About 80per cent in uniform varying from school colours to shirt and tie. Summer dresses popular. As were culottes for the girls so we could do cartwheels and handstands on the field.

@ufucoffee
Well actually I think it can be difficult. Until a few months ago I relied upon a launderette (admittedly not now, but plenty of families local to me do), and even without that, working full time and bringing up young kids, particularly as a single parent is hard.
Making sure you've got the right shirt ready for each morning is an extra stress/worry I could do without, when there are other Tshirts and tops that are already washed.
And the vast majority of adults don't work in uniform. I would never work anywhere with a uniform, so I think that's a silly comparison.

My DS 10 goes to school in Germany where there are no uniforms. I was once told uniforms are frowned upon post WWII, I don't know if that's the case but it makes sense.

I've been pretty amazed at how easy it is to manage. He wears joggers, t-shirts, hoodies etc. He likes certain labels like Champion and Adidas but I wouldn't have said it costs more than uniform to kit him out. I find Next do good basics and he likes them because they are soft and comfy. I just do a big wash and iron session once a week, put it all in his drawers and he dresses himself, has done since he was about 6.

At his age I had to wear a button down shirt with a tie on elastic and my hair in plaits I can't imagine him and his friends tolerating that. His teacher wears ethnic harem pants and t-shirts with butterflies on them. It's so different to how I experienced primary school. I've asked him and he says nobody makes fun of clothes, but they do make fun of haircuts. My DS wore a hat in class for 2 months after one haircut apparently the teacher supported this. In my UK schools (attended/ worked at) he would have been sent to the head/ sent home!

I don't think uniform achieves much but I wouldn't go out of my way to find a non-uniform school if we moved back to the UK.

John Ball in Blackheath. Outstanding ofsted and the catchment area is actually a decent size too.

I have to laugh when people say uniforms erase class differences and prevent bullying. Kids still have expensive coats and accessories, they have new uniform every year, etc. You can always tell.

Not in London but the primary schools at least in my (middle class suburban) area seem to be fairly relaxed on uniform.

So we can wear branded or non branded, the jumper is the only thing that many children wear consistently branded but by no means all, so uniform can be bought cheaply from supermarkets.

There is no diktat on coats, hair bobbles or socks which I would have an issue with at a state school with differing income levels. And no ties for little ones which is ridiculous!

My eldest is still in trainers after not having bothered to get new school shoes post lockdown and no one has said anything.

Uniform has it's place but it's not a leveller IMO. Children know whose parents have a flash car or whatever.

Equally i would be happy to have a loose policy of basic leggings/ jeans and t shirts in certain colours.