Any primary schools with no uniform in London (or anywhere)?

[LewishamMum]

I'm really anti school uniform. I went to a state primary outside London and there was no uniform. I did have to wear uniform from 11-16, but was then back out of it for the sixth form.

I really don't want my DD to wear uniform AT ALL when she starts school. I just think it's silly and wrong and right wing and stifles individuality. Most of the Western World gets on without them, why can't we?

I'm currently in Lewisham, but likely to be moving in the next couple of years in any event, but staying within South London. Seriously, are there any STATE schools, preferably maintained, with absolutely no uniform from 4 to 11?

Pride doesn't have to be based on achievement

You can be proud of so many things other than achievement. My DC are proud of their school because of its achievements.

*aren't proud of it because of its achievements

@LewishamMum In an ideal world though I would "home educate" or rather not educate but let them just play, mostly outside, until about 8.
I agree, in an ideal world the government would realise that play based education is best for young children.

It is play based already in reception isn’t it?

I’m fine with the age they start learning

Would you home school then op?

@MarshaBradyo
Nope - totally couldn't afford it (I'm single), and anyway I'd be very worried about the socialisation aspect.
I am though just anti formal education before the age of 8ish. Totally pro full time "play schools" from 4 onwards, but just no sitting down in uniform and doing the three Rs. Plenty of time for that, and you learn so much from climbing trees!

@UnluckyMe

This is a really odd post.

Uniforms are in place to give children an equal balance in the school setting. All pupils look the same, treated the same, taught the same and to have that understanding of belonging to a group. You sound hungup on whatever you had in your childhood. I didn't wear uniform in primary school and 6th form either, really hasn't scarred me or made me think any differently for my own kids who wear their uniform. You sound like you just want to be different and stand out but you're actually just coming across like a pain in the backside and probably like to moan about anything/everything

But children aren't the same. Put a slim size 8 teenager and a pear-shaped size 16 one in the same regulation skirt from the school shop. Someone is going to look and feel uncomfortable. Likewise compare the child with brand new uniform every year and the one who has been wearing the same blazer for 4 years because it's too expensive. They know.

This 'one size fits all' attitude is what's wrong with education. Children do look different. They learn at different rates. They're good (or bad) at different things. Individuality and diversity should be celebrated, not stifled. I worked in primary schools for many years. I'd rather see a Superman cape on a 5 year old than the same tie and blazer as everyone else.

OP, I'm with you on everything you've said in this thread. I was always baffled by the idea of being 'proud' of a school, too. Didn't choose mine, didn't like it. I'm fonder of my old university, but someone else who studied there achieving something good has nothing to do with me, really.

None of my children wear uniform at their schools in N London (Islington and Camden). I much prefer non uniform too.

As per a pp none of my children have ever asked to wear x, y and z expensive label or some ridiculous non-suitable item (although dd3 loved to mix bizarre clashing colours together but that's infinitely preferable to wearing some uniform that is invariably made of polyester).

I think uniforms actually increase the pressure on bags, trainers , non uniform days whereas it always worn own clothes it's not such an issues - teenagers will always find a fault to criticise and I'm not sure uniform helps that much and I'd rather be teased about an Asda George coat than having a big nose for example - it's only clothes!
I wonder why we are so pro uniform? In the 80s/ early 90s where I lived south east uniform was rare in primary schools and about 60;40 in secondary
It is a pain really as often cheap clothes that don't last well and the white polo shirts are awful for stains

OP, I felt very similar to you before my kids started primary school. It felt like such a big deal.

However, I have come to realise in the intervening years that there are so many more important factors In terms of what makes the right school for your children. These are your feelings. And your politics. Not your children's. Once they did start school both of them actually really liked having a uniform.

Seriously please don't move house to base your schools choice around a uniform policy. Once you start doing tours of primary schools you pick up a vibe from each of them that can really surprise you. There are seriously so many more important aspects to consider.

In lewisham - John ball, Kilmorie, Edmund waller, horniman

My kids go to a wonderful school with such a brilliant community atmosphere. People look out for each other, support and are kind to each other. They are encouraged to climb trees and build dens. Every single child is treated as an individual. It’s not just academics - they put as much emphasis on sport, music, art and drama. Lessons are outside wherever possible.

Oh, and it has the most full on, verging on ridiculous, uniform requirements. All of the above trumps having to wear it though.

@Zodlebud this sounds just like my DDs school, including the ridiculous uniform. Only 2 colours of hair bobble / band allowed for example...

Your idea that only by not having a uniform can schools truly value the unique child is naive to the extreme, I've got to say.

I agree that it's an unfortunate trend over the last 20 years that primary schools have uniform. I think it's a one way direction of travel - schools go from having no uniform to having one but rarely go the other way. I can also understand, having had kids in a super diverse Southwark primary, why it might be call some schools make in order to try to make things easier on the least-wealthy parents. And with my knowledge of London primaries (having lived in SE London all my life) I think generally the ones that have stuck it out with no uniform tend to be the ones with a large proportion of liberal middle class parents who, like you, value the idea of their children expressing their individuality. In every school uniform would be easier for some and offensive to others but like a great many other things with schools, compromises are made.

It's also not an easy change to come back from. I can well imagine a scenario where you've got a very very good head teacher doing fantastic things at a local primary, who personally doesn't agree with uniform but the school has had one for 15 years, and in terms of the battle they are going to pick in terms of affecting large-scale organisational change, it's not going to be that one, because they know that half the parents will be up in arms etc etc.

Basically OP - I think you need to open your eyes and look at the wider context. School uniform isn't the hill to die on.

Bloody hate school uniforms! Hate enforcing the pointless policy and hate that children have to wear them. Even 6th forms have them round here - can you imagine anything more ridiculous than 18 year old men and women dressed up as school children. DS left his secondary at 16 purely to go to a school with no uniform. He had the best gcse at his school and absolutely told them why he was going taking another 6 high achievers with him. They joined a pretty rubbish school and got the highest A level grades in that school. The grammar school continue to loose excellent students (the ones who have to confidence to leave) every year because they are so wedded to a uniform, yet they are judged by parents solely on their results.

Ah you'd have hated bringing me up OP!

All I wanted in my four year old life was to be able to read. Fortunately my Mum obliged.

Then there was my one and only tantrum (yes there was vomit) when I refused to wear a brown dress to school. Why would anyone even design a little girl's dress in brown?

I was thrilled when they brought in school uniform to our school when I was about 7 (Fortunately not brown ).

I can assure you there's not a Tory among us.

Growing up in Europe I never went to a uniformed school. We moved a lot so I been to many.

I always found this argument that its so kids don't tease other because of their clothing or lack of brand items very strange. I never experienced or witnessed any bullying because of clothing. I also never really noticed who were the very rich and very poor kids. And most of the schools were quite divers.

the only thing that stands out in my memory is that some kids had a popular brand of backpack (one with a gorilla keychain) but you were never bullied for not having one you were just a bit jealous that you did not have one.

I do wonder if brand are more important to UK youth because they have so little room for self expression. If everyone is the same then having that one item that makes you stand out becomes that more important.

Loads of London schools are non-uniform, and it’s really common in Lewisham particularly, OP.

At my DCs school (non-uniform) they’d survey the parents every 3-4 years, and it always split almost 50-50 on who wanted a uniform and who didn’t. Usually tipped by a per cent or so in favour of staying non-uniform. It does increase a certain amount of faff, though, if your DC are that type! Someone I know got so fed up at one point with her 2 young DDs and the constant battles over what was appropriate for school and what wasn’t she took them shopping for “school uniform” - a set of clothes only to be worn on school days that were pre-agreed to be practical but that were too their taste.

I like uniform so that they don't ruin their home clothes with pen, paint etc (or the mud kitchen)

I do agree that some schools completely over the top .. what's wrong with joggers/leggings/shorts plus a school colour t-shirt for example? (And jumper). What does wearing a tie teach a four year old? Or a blazer?

This past year the majority of schools seem to have PE kit on PE days... Has learning been affected by wearing leggings and a t shirt? No.

(Secondary seems early enough for a more formal uniform.)
(Expensive uniforms aren't levellers... One DD was allocated a place in a school where there was ties, blazers, non supermarket skirts etc and I did have a bit of a panic and we aren't struggling byany stretch of an imagination.. luckily she was given a place in her sisters school a week later with its supermarket uniform. Part of the school catchment for that first school was deprived. )

with my knowledge of London primaries (having lived in SE London all my life) I think generally the ones that have stuck it out with no uniform tend to be the ones with a large proportion of liberal middle class parents who, like you, value the idea of their children expressing their individuality.

I’d agree with this. We moved out of London eventually and there are absolutely NO schools that are non-uniform here. It’s a much less diverse area with little population movement and even the idea of non-uniform would be crazy to most parents here. It’s a shame!

[quote LewishamMum]@MarshaBradyo
Nope - totally couldn't afford it (I'm single), and anyway I'd be very worried about the socialisation aspect.
I am though just anti formal education before the age of 8ish. Totally pro full time "play schools" from 4 onwards, but just no sitting down in uniform and doing the three Rs. Plenty of time for that, and you learn so much from climbing trees![/quote]
You will shortly have much more that you are unhappy with than just the uniform.

There is nothing informal about KS1 education.

Edmund Waller in SE14. Judging by your name your won't even have to move house! They're a perfectly lovely school and quite liberal in their ethos generally.

There should seriously be laws about what colour hair bobble's people wear.....I honesty think any teacher who thinks that matters should be banned from the classroom.

Meant to say....laws preventing people wearing whatever colour they want lol

[quote LewishamMum]@minipie
Most expensive outfit I had as a kid was my secondary uniform.
Never bought anything fancy...I mostly shop at Primark for me and my DD, and have lots of stuff from freecycle.
I'm just totally not interested in clothes/fashion and never have been. But I'm also pro individuality and creativity and uniforms make me think of Eton and the army and lots of posho right wing things. Plus, I really do think it's cruel for 4 year olds.[/quote]
I think you might have more to worry about than uniform if you think it’s cruel! What IS cruel is being the kid in class who’s parents are poor and they therefore get rubbed endlessly about not having the right shoes / jeans / bag / coat etc. Wearing uniform doesn’t stifle creativity, it removes the hassle of non uniforms.

@Soontobe60
But what about the hassle of uniforms - having to have the "right" Tshirt ready for gym, rather than anyone that will do?
Having to constantly make sure you've got the right version of everything?
Sounds like a right hassle to me.