Any primary schools with no uniform in London (or anywhere)?

[LewishamMum]

I'm really anti school uniform. I went to a state primary outside London and there was no uniform. I did have to wear uniform from 11-16, but was then back out of it for the sixth form.

I really don't want my DD to wear uniform AT ALL when she starts school. I just think it's silly and wrong and right wing and stifles individuality. Most of the Western World gets on without them, why can't we?

I'm currently in Lewisham, but likely to be moving in the next couple of years in any event, but staying within South London. Seriously, are there any STATE schools, preferably maintained, with absolutely no uniform from 4 to 11?

@Reg15notice

I completely agree with you but parental choice on this seems to have disappeared with the advent of academies/superheads who are obsessed with branding.

My primary was non uniform but I had a uniform at secondary. I was an FSM kid and it was much easier to wear my own individual clothes as the comparisons between our uniform skirts and jumpers were much more obvious.

I really resent spending money on poor quality clothes which I wouldn't otherwise buy in order for my child to get an education. Some of the academies feel entitled to demand all kinds of fripperies like ties, hats and blazers at primary school. Given that most parents have no choice of school it feels like you just have to hope that the school is sensible and doesn't get taken over at some point.

Agree totally.

I'm very pro non uniform but also pro a policy re clothing.

I don't see why black bottoms and a red top cannot be stipulated whilst allowing individuality.

A size 6 pupil may prefer leggings and a red fitted top yet a size 16 pupil may prefer leggings and a hoody or tunic style top.

I loathe that we stick people of all shapes and sizes into a one size fits all uniform style because the super heads want the image and have no care or respect for pupils self esteem and mental health.

We having different clothing styles because clothing is a choice. That should be something they learn from a young age.

I've stated many a time how I'd prefer secondary uniform to be set colour bottom half or any style, set top of set colour and a set colour of jumper in various styles (hoody, v neck etc) but with logo of school.

@SpringBluebellWoods
Well, as in the OP, I wouldn't really like it, but I do accept it's better than somewhere where everything from the shoe buckle to the umbrella has to confirm to type, and I'm aware that most people (including me!) don't have any real choice in that.

@sluj
No! Read the OP! But seriously lots of people move homes so their kids go to a particular school, and no uniform is really important: it's about a school that goes against the trend to do the right thing and value each child as an individual. What would be wrong with moving house for that?

My friend has children in a school in Lewisham with no uniform and they call the teacher by their first name. Deptford/St John's area.

I’m curious to know when uniform became so standard ? I was at primary school in the 1970s/early 80s and many central London state primaries didn’t have uniform. Went to secondary and had uniform for a year, before a new head got rid of it. 20 years later when my dc started school it’s the norm.

Fitzjohn's Primary in Hampstead has no uniform, as far as I'm aware

The primary my kids go to had no uniform and just introduced one 2 years ago.

honestly SO MUCH BETTER!!!
School day - uniform. Non School Day - no uniform

Wait until your child gets on a strop because the top they HAVE to wear that day is in the wash or take ages to choose in the morning when you have to get them to school and breakfast club or you will be late for work...

@BikeRunSki
I think as someone pointed out earlier it was the Academies what put the nail in the coffin. I do agree with you...in my childhood it was only private schools that had uniform at primary level.
I think a part of it was the generational change. Those with parents born in the 60s were dead against, but when a generation of kids had parents born later the tide turned, and Academies trying to mimic the silliest poshest schools ever made it a certainty.

OP in the nicest possible way I think you have some weird issues about this. School uniform has a lot of things in it's favour, and even if you're not a fan I can't imagine caring so strongly that it would influence your choice of school. I can think of A LOT of factors that are more important than whether a school has uniform or not.

And as for not wanting your DC to be proud of their school. That's really really sad My DC love their schools and are proud of them. I can't see how on earth that is something to discourage?? It's good for their self esteem to feel part of something bigger than themselves.

John Ball Primary in Blackheath and Meridian Primary in Greenwich.

Missing the point of the thread; but 5 year olds can read...
How is a uniform cruel??

I feel much much MUCH worse for the disadvantaged kids at a non-uniform school, than any kid at a uniform school. DS1 is in year 1 and I don’t own an iron.

@Thislittlefinger123
Pride doesn't make sense. Pride is based on an achievement. I'm proud of my degree. I'm proud of the fact I once did a 500 mile hike. I'm not proud my parents sent me to X school. I'm not against it. They sent me to a good school, but it's weird to be proud of something that is not based on any achievement, and I do think it causes people to be anti other schools and more importantly the people there. It drives me nuts the number of people in adulthood who hark on about their schools and are still proud of it. Yes, it's good to be part of something bigger than yourself, but a cause (litter picking in local park, raising money for charity), not something that is based on the idea you are better than others - and not even for something you have achieved (althoug hit would still be wrong to think you are better than others).

My kids don’t wear school uniform and I wish they did. But they have the school pride thing anyway. They are very young so I’m sure they’ll grow out of it. I am a little bit in love with their school and wish I could have gone to one like it so it doesn’t bother me that they are happy and proud. They also think that their class is better than the parallel class, it’s human nature.
My own state school was a failed private school and had a particular uniform plus lots of school pride stuff, but most of the people I know didn’t exhibit that spirit. It’s a personality thing rather than a school uniform thing IME.

@Terrazzo my primary didn’t have a uniform (1980s), my high school did. I was bullied terribly at high school. Even if you all wear the same jumper, your bag is the ‘wrong’ brand or your trainers for PE, your shoes (kickers were in back then, but my parents couldn’t afford them), coat etc. Uniform DOES NOT stop bullying over brands etc.

I’ve never ironed anything for my DD’s school uniform. It’s fab. In infants they all wear joggers or leggings and a white T shirt with a school sweater, in juniors it is a White polo T shirt or shirt/blouse, grey skirt or skorts or leggings or trousers, and a choice of sweater or cardigan. In summer, dress or shorts or leggings. Tights or socks of any length. Black shoes of some kind. PE is trainers of any colour, white T shirt, and navy or black joggers or leggings or shorts. Any coat, any bag, any sun hat.

I don’t find this even remotely right-wing. It’s practical, sensible clothing which washes well, and means Daisy doesn’t cry when Arav draws on her pretty skirt, and Poppy doesn’t turn up in her Superman costume every day and cry when someone tries to steal her cape.

Go into a few schools and talk to the head teacher, you will get a better idea about how much they push conformity on the kids by doing that rather than judging on the uniform policy.

I’ve no idea what on earth you are on about regarding generational change. I grew up in north London and in my area throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s there were no schools without uniform, I believe it was just a continuation from the 60s not a sudden right wing backlash and definitely nothing to do with academies which didn’t even exist then. The oldest primary in my town was in a poor catchment area and at my school we used to laugh because they even had uniform navy knickers (we thought that daft as who is going to see?)

I think the Brindishe schools don’t wear a uniform so in Hither Green and Lee Green. Not far from you now.

I think William Patten primary school in Stoke Newington is non-uniform?

I have never understood the argument that school uniform is supposed to hide social/economic difference. I went to uniformed primary and schools in the UK, and everyone knew who was rich and who wasn't. The kids who wanted to show off did it with school bags, jackets, sports kit etc. Class is such a huge subconscious issue in the UK.

I live in a continental European country now, and school uniform doesn't exist. My kids seem fine about that, and overall I think children here seem very practical about the way they dress.

You'd like it here, LewishamMum they don't start school til age 6 minimum, and they don't start learning to read and write until the end of 1st grade.

No advice from me, but good on you OP.

Most European schools don't have a uniform and are way ahead of the UK in terms of behaviour and attainment. Less bullying in general too, which is apparently a shocker. People in the UK expect them to be spending all day beating each other up for not wearing the right clothes. Bullies are always going to find something to bully for.

Some of the pro-uniform arguments give me the creeps.

We had a teacher tell us it was so we could 'learn to dress ourselves properly' (we were 15 🤔) and also so that we were 'able to wear a uniform ready for the working world'. Needless to say, I haven't worn a uniform since leaving school. I would draw quite a lot of attention to myself if I turned up to work in a tie.

The 'be proud of your school' argument REALLY gives me the heebie jeebies. It's like saying be 'proud' of your country or city, which many people are. 'Pride' is such a weird word for it. It's jingoism. You should treat your environment well wherever you are and if you happen to live/go somewhere nice that's nice, but you shouldn't be 'proud' of it. It just highlights differences in areas, schools, countries rather than similarities. We're training kids to be xenophobic.

Uniform makes life so much easier. No worrying about their favourite top being in the wash or brands. By year 3 most seem to be into brands. My son goes to private but we had a choice of 2 school near us. His it’s normal uniform but the other 1 day it’s smart uniform and the other 4 days it is a casual uniform but they have a choice of a range of colours for their jumpers, cords and polos. We decided even that was too much hassle as we knew he would suddenly have to have a pink polo because a friend had one in pink or insist he couldn’t go to school without his green jumper etc etc. so much easier when they all wear the same. M&S do really nice non iron shirts which come out brilliantly so you don’t need to iron.

I don't completely disagree with you but I think you are focussing too much on the uniform and pride aspects. There is an argument that uniform is a leveller (v important somewhere like Lewisham) and also that pride in a school is about self esteem. You might not agree that it works like that but the intent is surely not something you wouldn't want for your kid?

My kids both went to school in Lewisham. One loved wearing uniform and the other choose to wear her own clothes in the infants and then moved to a non uniform school in the juniors. It did make a difference to their happiness in different ways.

I can confirm that uniform does not prevent bullying. If the culture of the school allows bullying, then kids will find something to use.

It does prevent faffing over what to wear in the mornings, but sensible 'light touch' uniforms would do that - DD's sixth form has this (but until then the usual ridiculousness), black skirt/trousers, white shirt, black jumper/cardigan, white or black socks, black shoes. They deal with bullying proactively, thank goodness.

This is a really odd post.

Uniforms are in place to give children an equal balance in the school setting. All pupils look the same, treated the same, taught the same and to have that understanding of belonging to a group. You sound hungup on whatever you had in your childhood. I didn't wear uniform in primary school and 6th form either, really hasn't scarred me or made me think any differently for my own kids who wear their uniform. You sound like you just want to be different and stand out but you're actually just coming across like a pain in the backside and probably like to moan about anything/everything

And I agree with the OP about being 'proud' of your school (or country or whatever). DD loves her school and they've been great at meeting her needs. But to be 'proud' of going there? Why? I think the staff can be proud of what they do to make it a good school, pupils can be proud of what they contribute to their school.

But simply being allocated a particular school in the admissions lottery - what is there to be proud (or ashamed) of?

Yes near you in fact in FH

You associate uniforms with right wing policies? Don't know what general Mao would say about that ...

All pupils look the same, treated the same, taught the same

This isn't true though. There are variations within clothes even with a uniform.

I would hope that pupils are treated/taught according to what they need as individuals. DD has a restricted curriculum so she can get extra support in core subjects, for example (changed country/curriculum, plus has some support needs).

If a pupil was especially talented e.g. at a sport or music and had opportunities to develop that talent, I would hope the school would be flexible and support that.

If a child had a medical condition that meant they might need to leave class, or eat or drink in class, I would hope the school would allow that.

'Treating everyone the same' means selecting one group to prioritise, and ignoring the needs of everyone who doesn't fit into that group.