Primary Place withdrawn due to human error!

[MoonShimmer]

Good morning,

I was hoping to get some advice. My son was offered his first choice for primary on the 16th of April which I accepted within minutes. 8 days later I received a phone call from the LA to say that they were withdrawing his offer as they had made a 'human error' and offered out 78 places but there were only 60 available at the school. They said that they would look at putting him in his next choice but ultimately he has wound up at his third choice.

Obviously myself and his dad are fighting this, our friend's whos son had also been offered a place has had theirs withdrawn too. It was my understanding that thier error wasn't a good enough reason to withdraw all the places? We have asked why our son was chosen and they have simply said "they followed the criteria and distance" but we have evidence i.e actually speaking to the other people involved that they live further away, no siblings or additional needs, not cared for ECT or meet any of the criteria.

They have also said that he has missed out on his second choice as they last place was offered to a child outside criteria but closer than us but surely if they hadn't waited 8 DAYS to even look at giving him another placement he might have been more likely to get into his second choice? Especially as the LA say they don't do it by first come first served?

Also the woman who callled said they found on about all this on Tuesday but the supervisor said the school called on Monday and told them........so it took them till Friday to even tell us......I would just appreciate some advice on where to start with all this please? I'm heart broken and furious that apparently they can just do this and see absolutely no consequences!

@Movisoul

Be the parent that shouts the loudest as it will make it much more likely you will be heard. Tell them if they got it wrong, they should be reallocating all the places- not just shoving you into your 3rd place because that's easier for them. Ask them why they aren't starting again from scratch, threaten with local media, complain and demand written responses and them to clarify their approach.

I'm not an expert but I really don't think that's how school admission appeals work.

It's not about shouting loudly or doing sad face local newspaper photos, you have to follow the rules. Listen to the admission experts OP as this is a complex area with very specific ways of doing things

If they can't even offer the correct number of places (and 18 over is a massive error) it doesn't give you much faith that the other criteria have been applied correctly

@FlyingBurrito very patronising. I'm not talking about literally shouting and being aggressive obviously . I mean being extremely vocal and persistent. This isn't normal school admissions. This is an issue of employee incompetence ruining the system in place and meaning places aren't being allocated properly. That's what needs to be dealt with - otherwise the OP will be unheard. The administrators in charge need to be aware that THEIR errors are the issue and be left in a position where they need to take action or face the legal consequences of failing to follow the procedure. I've been through a similar process twice and being vocal and realising that you won't go away does make a big difference.

[quote Movisoul]@FlyingBurrito very patronising. I'm not talking about literally shouting and being aggressive obviously . I mean being extremely vocal and persistent. This isn't normal school admissions. This is an issue of employee incompetence ruining the system in place and meaning places aren't being allocated properly. That's what needs to be dealt with - otherwise the OP will be unheard. The administrators in charge need to be aware that THEIR errors are the issue and be left in a position where they need to take action or face the legal consequences of failing to follow the procedure. I've been through a similar process twice and being vocal and realising that you won't go away does make a big difference.[/quote]
Believe me we will be very vocal about the error and are in the process of lodging a complaint. More so because when I mentioned to the woman on the phone I was expecting the person responsible for the error to be disciplined or sacked she said "well no probably not, nothing will happen to them!"

Surely this is all done by a computer system - how can an error like this even happen?

Are you 100% that there are people with spaces that fall below you in the allocation criteria? - Absolutely 100% that you haven't misunderstood something. That they don't have a situation you are unaware of - e.g. LAC etc? Would those people provide you with their details to use in an appeal? (I would struggle to see that they would because it might mean they lose their space at the school.....) - But if you do then that is a massive reason for you to be offered a place at appeal if they haven't followed their own published process.

What did the allocation profiles look like on allocation day?

Sorry you are going through this.

(For those asking why the school can't just run a bulge class - you actually have to have enough space in the school to run an extra class - so a whole extra classroom for the next 6 years - plus space in the hall, at lunchtime....etc etc)

I think wanting someone sacked is quite extreme.

A horrible situation which I hope gets resolves. Where are you in the waiting list?

@OverTheRainbow88

I think wanting someone sacked is quite extreme.

A horrible situation which I hope gets resolves. Where are you in the waiting list?

I agree, I totally understand the frustrations about the error but I very much doubt the staff member did anything other than make a genuine error. It’s very unfortunate and the ramifications for you are huge, but it’s probably as simple as the wrong box being ticked or a typo - careless, but more down to systems than a specific individual.

I’d definitely want a full explanation of how the error occurred but it’s likely a background data issue somewhere.

@OverTheRainbow88

I think wanting someone sacked is quite extreme.

A horrible situation which I hope gets resolves. Where are you in the waiting list?

I would expect someone to see some sort of ramifications when it on this large a scale, I work in a school and I can honestly say we would get into so much trouble here of some kind of nature.

@Mumdiva99

Surely this is all done by a computer system - how can an error like this even happen?

Are you 100% that there are people with spaces that fall below you in the allocation criteria? - Absolutely 100% that you haven't misunderstood something. That they don't have a situation you are unaware of - e.g. LAC etc? Would those people provide you with their details to use in an appeal? (I would struggle to see that they would because it might mean they lose their space at the school.....) - But if you do then that is a massive reason for you to be offered a place at appeal if they haven't followed their own published process.

What did the allocation profiles look like on allocation day?

Sorry you are going through this.

(For those asking why the school can't just run a bulge class - you actually have to have enough space in the school to run an extra class - so a whole extra classroom for the next 6 years - plus space in the hall, at lunchtime....etc etc)

Yes I am sure as we have actually found these parents directly through our community forum but like you say I doubt they would want to put their own spot in jeopardy.

I have asked the LA for their allocation profile on admissions day but I was just told the process was followed. That's all. :(

@MoonShimmer People can’t just be sacked for making a error though. The error could effectively be as little as a typo, which in most cases goes without any kind of consequence.

It is not the individual staff member that I would be furious at, but the system not having adequate review and quality assurance in place.

If the error the employee made warranted further action it could be taken further by the employer but you have no right to any information about that. If you made a genuine mistake at work would you appreciate it being broadcast publicly and being thrown under the bus? You might get an internal ‘talking to’ but that is very different.

[quote Sajani]@MoonShimmer People can’t just be sacked for making a error though. The error could effectively be as little as a typo, which in most cases goes without any kind of consequence.

It is not the individual staff member that I would be furious at, but the system not having adequate review and quality assurance in place.

If the error the employee made warranted further action it could be taken further by the employer but you have no right to any information about that. If you made a genuine mistake at work would you appreciate it being broadcast publicly and being thrown under the bus? You might get an internal ‘talking to’ but that is very different.[/quote]
I think its a joint thing that needs looking at to be honest. We found a document detailing the checks that happen before offers are actually sent out and its apparently checked about 5 times but different staff members at different levels before its ever sent out on the parent portal....so how did so many members of staff miss it?

@MoonShimmer That’s the type of thing I would be much more concerned about than one individual making a mistake - you can highlight the procedural failings that must have happened for an error of this scale to occur.

It’s really hard looking in on this situation as I totally understand how gutting it must be to have the place ‘taken away’ after being told you had it, but if you’ve ended up in the same position as you would have done had the error not been made then it’s hard to see what your ‘loss’ is in a legal sense.

It’s one of those awful situations where this failing impacts you and they probably can’t do anything to fix it in your eyes, but you would hope it prompts them to overhaul their systems to get to the bottom of the issue so it doesn’t happen again.

I honestly doubt many people without school age kids have any idea how important the school places are to parents and the impact of a changed decision has.

Yes someone is paid enough to check and triple check before offers are made. The process after the error which resulted in your DC being allocated 3rd choice should definitely be transparent. I really recommend putting your complaint in writing and asking specific questions - e.g. how did the authority ensure that any children who had their places withdrawn were treated fairly in allocating their eventual school place? Can the authority assure us that my child has not been at any disadvantage as a result of the error and that they have not lost the option to be in our second choice school because places had already been allocated there during the time my child had been wrongly assumed to our first choice school? Etc.

What they should have done is start again once the error was discovered and withdrawn all offers and re-allocated everyone using the original criteria. They probably haven't done that because it would be admitting a huge f* up on an enormous scale. So what you get instead is vague explanations and back covering with "we followed procedure".

If you have complained and got nowhere, you can go to the Ombudsman perhaps. Worth googling.

Good luck - it must be infuriating.

Something similar happened to us - our daughter's place was withdrawn due to an error made by the council (although they are blaming the school and the school is blaming the council). I posted about it separately. Such a nightmare.

Quick question - how do you count the days post offer? The offer was made on Friday 16th April and we were told yesterday, Monday 26th April. Assuming you don't count weekends that's 6 days?

You will need to put in a freedom of information request for any info you need for the appeal. So I would include on there the request for the allocation profile on offer day. - they can't say the correct process was followed because it clearly wasn't or they wouldn't have offered 18 additional children places.......

Agree with Admissions.

As she says, the 3-day limit has never been part of the Admissions Code. At the time of the legal decisions, the Code talked about withdrawing a place when the LA had made the error, not the admission authority, which always seemed a little odd. More recently, the Code has said that a place can be withdrawn if the offer was made in error regardless of who made the error. The question is whether the previous precedents still hold following the change to the Code. My view is that they do, but we won't know for sure until someone takes a case to judicial review.

You should appeal. As others have said, the problem is that, with 18 children affected, it is unlikely the appeal panel will feel able to admit all of them. You therefore need to make a positive case as to why your son will be disadvantaged if he is not admitted as well as arguing that the place should not have been withdrawn.

If you are correct and they haven't followed the admission criteria in deciding who gets a place, that would be a further issue and potentially allows you to argue that, even if they were allowed to withdraw offers, yours should not have been one of those withdrawn.

The fact they said they would look at putting your son into your second choice suggests that, if they hadn't made this mistake, he would have got a place there. You should therefore appeal for that school, arguing that the LA's mistake has deprived him of a place.

This is a mess. Errors on this scale really shouldn't happen. As others have said, "human error" is not an adequate explanation. You need to get more detail as to exactly what went wrong. I would also question the LA as to how they decided which places to withdraw, putting forward cases you know of where they don't seem to have followed the admission criteria.

God this sounds so stressful. Hope you get it sorted.

There are a number of different issues here. The first is how the very peculiar number of 18 is involved when the PAN is 60.
If the school has a PAN of 60, then when the LA set up their admission criteria order for the school they have a very long list of pupils who have applied for a place in admission criteria order. If between the school and the LA they had made a mistake and 18 pupils were given a place due to an error in admission criteria order, then the first allocation of places would still have been 60 places. It would have been that 18 were not really entitled to the place and 18 were not given a place at the school who should have been.
However you do not have this situation from what I understand of it. 78 places were allocated to pupils, when it should have been 60. My understanding is that the IT system is told the PAN and then the system works out the 60 to be given places. It therefore follows that maybe the wrong PAN figure was put in for the school. If that is the case I question why the school, who get the list of pupils allocated places a few days before the parents did not immediately realise that there were too many names.
The other alternative is that schools are allowed to go over the PAN with agreement with the LA. Could it be that somebody decided / agreed to take all the pupils who fitted into one category and this came down to an extra 18 pupils. Then sometime after the places were confirmed that somebody changed their mind.
The bottom line is that we can speculate on how this happened for ever and the only real way forward is for the parents to appeal, whilst keeping the pressure on the school and LA to deal with the significant number of pupils who have been affected by this error.

If you’re able to, appeal Together with your friends whose children have also had places withdrawn. Helped my SIL when she did the same a few years ago.

Can you get a local councillor on board to advise and support your appeal?

Imm not an expert at all but I think your strongest argument is that their cock up has made it less likely you got into 2nd choice school? That sounds like an argument worth fighting. Sorry you’re in this situation is utterly rubbish

Do you think the school can actually accommodate a bulge class? If they can't accommodate one I can't see what they could do as they couldn't have an extra 9 in each class (and they can't withdraw the other places if they meet the criteria)

@Dailywalk

Can you get a local councillor on board to advise and support your appeal?

Don't go down this route. Local councillors generally know next to nothing about school admissions and appeals. Any advice is likely to be, at best, worthless and, at worst, damaging. An appeal panel will not give any weight at all to support from a councillor. Indeed, if the councillor turns up to the hearing the appeal panel may view it as an attempt to bully them, which will not go down well.

It sounds very stressful OP. So sorry to hear that this has happened to you.

I would tread carefully over questioning why other children were offered places over yours.
There may well be reasons which you are unaware of, such as the child having been adopted (previously looked after child) or special educational needs that you are unaware of.

I would not like to be questioned about why my child was offered a place over another.

Wanting someone to be sacked for a mistake is appalling and ultimately leads to services becoming worse. If people think they will be sacked they will go to great lengths to hide mistakes.

Do you honestly think someone deliberately wanted this to happen? An employer will know if the person or people responsible have made a one off error or if it's the latest in a string of mistakes and will deal with it accordingly.

I would question the waiting list priorities but be aware that people might no be completely honest with you about the reason for their position on the list, even if you are close to them. I hope this gets sorted out quickly for you.