State vs Private (with discount)

[surreygirl1987]

Hello, after some advice. I know the state vs private debate has been done to death but I'd really appreciate opinions on my situation.

I'm a teacher and will be working in an independent school from September. They go from 4 to 18 and offer a hefty fee remission to children of staff. I have 2 kids not quite primary school age yet. Taking into account the cost or wraparound care in the primary schools we are looking at, we'd be paying £4k a year extra per child for private education... so £8k a year total. I realise that's a good price for private education but of course state education is free, and we are not made of money. For context, our joint salaries will be just under £100k a year and our mortgage will probably be £1600-1800 a month. We don't have expensive tastes and are fairly frugal but we do like to travel.

The reasons I would consider independent education are to give my children opportunities I never had. Having had a state upbringing myself, and then working in independent school, I see the difference every day. It isn't fair at all but I do want the best I can offer my own children and I have an opportunity here that we'd never be able to have if I didn't happen to work in this school.

Are we mad to consider paying £8k a year for 2 kids in private school?Are we mad not to? A couple of the local primary schools do look good. Ideally I would put my kids into the local primary school and then they'd go to the private school from Year 7, but it's much tougher to get in when they're older which is why a lot of parents choose to pay from Reception - its a through school. I don't want to regret not putting them in from reception, if there wasn't a place for them in Year 7. Equally though, what if I decide to move jobs or they don't get on at the school- I don't want to regret spending all that money.

Would appreciate any insight that would help us decide. Unfortunately we have to decide soon as it affects where we buy our house (house hunting right now) as its much more expensive to buy in the catchment areas of the better primary schools and we could get more for our money if we didn't need to worry about school catchments. What would you do?

DH is a teacher and our DC attend the same school, they’ve been there since reception. The massive benefit is that it simplifies the school run and it was easier for DH to watch assemblies etc.
I guess the things to consider are that the extra costs like trips and uniforms are expensive. There will be lots of ultra rich families and there will be times when your child questions why you don’t earn the same. There can also be a tricky dynamic, eg having to leave class whatsapp groups if people are bitching about colleagues. Also, we’ve found that if your child has an issue, it’s much harder to complain because there’s an expectation that staff parents won’t make a fuss.

Personally I would go for the independent school, especially given the discount and the fact that you'd be working there.

How long are you likely to work there? Will the discount remain or will it still be affordable if you love jobs?

How likely is your DH realistically to stay at that school for 15 years? What happens if he dies or becomes disabled. It's grim to think about but you need to know the answers. Also, how does he feel being tied to one school for that long? I'd commit to doing their prep years there then reassess. I would buy out of catchment to save money and once your kids are older you can move again if you need to go state etc.

Also, the private school teachers I know who sent their kids state found it hard as they were staring at what their kids were missing out on everyday and providing that for other people's kids.

Is the £4k per year for senior school as well or just the primary division?

Is there another entry point between reception and year 7? Some schools have big intakes around year 3 which might be better.

How much cheaper are houses out of good state school zones? It might be cost effective for you to choose the independent school (although of course you could sell the house in a few years if you bought in zone).

If you do go independent you want life and trauma insurance that covers your children's (full) fees in case of death or career ending injury/sickness.

Is it a small school? Is there a risk you would teach your own child's class (I would want to avoid this).

How good is the independent school? What are its results like? What kind of activities does it offer?

Personally I would choose the independent - if it doesn't work out you can move them for secondary.

I'm a teacher at an independent also 4-18. Both my kids go. Along with the hefty discount, the logistics are so much easier, not just day to day but same holidays, I never miss a school event etc.

I think this may be an unpopular view on here but personally I think it’s really not a good experience for children when they attend the same school a parent works at.

Thanks for all the replies. We would definitely like them to go to the senior school when they're older ( yes, despite me working there, @Aliceandthemarchhare, though I do take your point. Large school so wouldn't need to ever teach them myself). Prices increase for the senior school but we will make it work by having less expensive holidays etc. It's just the junior bit we're unsure about.

@cakesofversailles, good questions. The senior school and results are all fantastic. Not top tier, but definitely up there and it is selective, though not to the extent of my current very academic school. The senior school is exactly the kind of school I'd like them to go to, basically. But should I pay the junior school fees to ensure they have a place guaranteed for them for the senior schools, or should I put them in the state school for free then hope they get in later? Yes, there is another entry point in year 3 which is a consideration and I suppose will give me time to see how much I like working there. Entry isn't guaranteed in year 3 either of course... I'm just nervous of them not getting in if I don't put them in from the start, when there is no entrance exam.

I am normally a big proponent of state (we had the option through DH’s work to send the children private, but chose state), but in your case I think I would go independent. 8k/year for two children is a bargain, and I think that it will massively simplify your life to all be at the same place. It also sounds like you are happy with the school from a teacher’s standpoint, which I think bodes well for how you would feel as a parent with children receiving an education there.

I’d do it. We’ve made a similar choice to pay from the beginning as we could get the kids in then and didn’t want the pressure/risk of later tests.

That’s a great discount.

FWIW I went to the school my mum taught at, she even did teach me for a while, and it was fine. Bit funny at times - I took to calling her “Mrs Mum” for a while - but never an issue.

Are either of you ambitious? DC have left school now but generally the staff who wanted to end up as HOD or head master etc changed school every 5-7 years.

My vote would be for the private school - unless your partner has a job where he can lead on school runs etc. As a full time teacher your kids would probably have to be first into breakfast club and last to leave after school club, and as someone has mentioned you would probably miss all their plays/sports days and special occasions at school. You might have to compromise your ambition and career progression to keep the handy school run and discount.

Instead of getting "more for your money" in the cheaper area why not buy a smaller house and have more money in your pocket. If you need an extra £800 each month how much can you save on the mortgage by buying a smaller house in the cheaper area?

I would send the kids from the start so I could try to avoid moving them when they were settled and disrupting their friendships.

I can’t offer an insight when it comes to state vs private (I was in semi-private in my home country which doesn’t exist as such in the UK), but I just wanted to say that I went to a 3-18 all through school and absolutely loved it. It was quite a small school and I really loved knowing everyone and not having to change schools at any point.

Quite a few teacher couples and children of staff in the school, which meant even when moving up to secondary, everyone knew everyone. It was single form entry until Y6 and then the forms doubled for secondary, so the chance to form new friendships if you didn’t get along with the same people you did in pre-school, was there. By sixth form the groups had changed quite a bit, I think out of the original 25 in my pre-school, there were 3 of us graduating 6th form.

It was a really good experience for me and I hope I can give my children the same opportunity in the future.

OP, my DD is in Year 2 at the indie school I teach in. We live in a small village with a great primary but like you, once aftercare had been considered the reduced fees at the indie would only be about £4K a year extra.

It’s worked for us so far. Classes are smaller, there’s opportunities for a wide range of clubs and if I needed to speak to the teacher I could do so very easily.

What really swung it for us was that by using wrap around care every day at the primary neither parent would ever get to see DD’s teacher and this was a concern when she started reception.

As it happened, we didn’t need to see the indie reception teacher as DD settles in really well but it was nice to get the odd thumbs up and being told things were all good across the playground at break.

If I left, the discount would still apply which is important to know.

Wow, I'd bite their hand off! If you see the advantages of private education from get go why wouldn't you do it? We both earn more now but pay more than £30k in prep right now for 2 kids. When I first registered DD1 for a prep I was a signle mum on £63k and would not get any discount. We also had an option of an outstanding primary but I chose to pay for a 5* expeirence for them as you only get 1 shot at it. I hated school and I wanted as much of "hogwarts" experience yet academics as I could get for them. We still can travel and don't cut down on anything but save less. To me £100k income and £8k outlay for 2 kids is very affordable. Look at it as not a spend but an investment, just as you would in ISA for them.

Oh gosh. I'd just been leaning towards the state option and then I read all these messages and they're making me second guess myself. Thanks for your input. You are quite right that it is a bargain. @Wishihadanalgorithm the fact that your discount would have remained if you left is amazing... I have never heard of that! @LizziesTwin we are ambitious yes, but it is a middle management position I'll be taking on. I have no idea if I'll want to stay at the same school for so long through so you're right - I could be sacrificing my own career to some extent for my children's education. Just read all through the comments twice with interest. Still not sure what to do but massively appreciate the opinions and insight - thank you.

Yes surely the cost of wrap around care at a state primary must mitigate a large piece of the £8k

As someone who went on an assisted place to a private school, I would never encourage anyone to send their kids who can't afford the full lifestyle. Its not just the school fees, its the ponies and the boats, expensive holidays, the constant supply of new clothes and the houses with swimming pools. If you can live the lifestyle and the school is genuinely good (they really aren't all worth the fees!) then 100% go for it. If you are having to cut back, or you can't keep up with the lifestyle of most of the parents, then don't put a young child in the situation where they have to explain regularly why they can't go to something or why they can't have a friend round or they don't have this or that.

@superduster, in our prep nobody has this kind of lifestyle. Most are management - level working parents, very few stay at home mums. No flashy cars, no houses with swimming pools. We do arrange nice birthday parties and I’m happy my DDs have fun parties, but I’m sure in wealthy area state schools children have pretty much the same

@superduster

I went to a private school and my family was probably better off than most (if not all). I didn't have a pony nor extravagant holidays. That was my parent's choice as they wanted to spend most of the time after school with us. I never really thought about all the things kids are supposed to have if they attend private school until I read it here on MN (several times).

We actively chose state for our children because the schools locally were better (think third tier fee paying options) and because we wanted them to reap the benefits of living and having friends in a wonderful community. It hasn’t let us down and we are delighted with what excellent state schools can offer and we supplement what they can’t offer.
But £8k a year is less than we pay for tutors, lots of sports, swimming, drama, music lessons out of school so I would definitely go for that so that you aren’t doing the extras whilst working. I wouldn’t pay 15k per child as I feel we can do it better for less, but 8k for two is like a ready meal option that would be too hard to resist! But I do have a friend whose husband works at school his children go to and they pay very low fees and now he wants to leave job as very stressed and feels stuck as he doesn’t want them to have to change friendships etc.

Firstly how much is there a guarantee of staying on at each stage of education. Many all-through schools weed out the lower performing children at each stage.

Secondly, be prepared to re-assess at 11. You cannot tell at this stage, when your DCs haven't even started school, whether the senior school will be a good match for their needs, interests and character. Equally, they may want a change at 6th form.

Are there Plan B schools available if things don't work out?

We have two friends in your situation and they’ve both gone for different options.

I would consider getting into catchment for state and seeing how that goes. If getting in is tricky then maybe sit the entrance test each year and discuss the results with the staff.

I'm a former teacher.
I am sending my two children to private primary, and possibly secondary if they don't get in to a grammar.

In your situation I wouldn't hesitate. It's a bargain price for a much better education.