Phonics

[MummyDolly]

So my little boy can read and write really well, his memory of words is amazing. However when it comes to phonics he cannot grasp them. He cannot sound out words or blend the sounds together.

I have got the same flash cards as his teacher to try and help but I'm just worrying he's going to fall behind in some way.

He's had his ears checked as his teacher asked me if he could hear properly etc

Just don't know what else to do 😬😬

*I'm

I don’t know what the answer is. I work with a couple of children who sound like they have a similar profile to your son, who literally run away from phonics/reading. But this means that they still cannot read in year 5/6.
At the moment we are trying ways to ‘trick’ them into learning phonics! Sometimes they will cooperate with a computer based game. We’ve been trying games which build on their phonological awareness skills - so a quiz with two questions where the answers rhyme, or a series of questions where the answers vary by one sound.
Having targets with different letters and spelling by knocking over the targets in the right order.
And definitely using motivational reading materials, one child is doing quite well using Yugioh cards!
I think the important thing is to acknowledge that children have to be able to use phonics to read, we can’t just discard that part of reading. But to be prepared to recognise that the approach to teaching phonics is not working for that child and to have a range of alternatives to try.

@Elisheva
Yes, I agree - your brain needs to be able to decode words to read, of course.
What I disagree with is @Norestformrz's assertation that explicit instruction is the most effective method for all children. Not always, in my experience. Explicit decoding based on phonemes simply didn't work for one of my children. Learning without realising it is the best approach for my DS, for the moment at least.

How old is your Ds if you don’t mind me asking?

He's 13. I'm sorry, I feel I'm talking too much though! This is not my thread.

that suggests that a pupil can be a good reader but still be unable to produce acceptable pronunciations for the made up words.

They can. We don't read using phonics past a certain point and some of us never do.

Children who cannot decode words cannot become fluent, independent readers, because they simply do not have the tools to tackle new vocabulary when they encounter it.

Wouldn't it be lovely if the English language really worked like that!

Phonics can be a powerful tool but it's not a magic bullet.

@stuffedforchristmas

that suggests that a pupil can be a good reader but still be unable to produce acceptable pronunciations for the made up words.

They can. We don't read using phonics past a certain point and some of us never do.

Entirely wrong, I'm afraid. Someone who sees "strom" and reads it as "storm" is not a good reader. And you do continue to read using phonics throughout your life. The evidence is that all of us do. You just aren't conscious of it most of the time - perhaps when you encounter an unfamiliar word but not the rest of the time. Brain scans of adults reading show that the same areas of the brain light up as the ones used by children when sounding out and blending.

@stuffedforchristmas

Children who cannot decode words cannot become fluent, independent readers, because they simply do not have the tools to tackle new vocabulary when they encounter it.

Wouldn't it be lovely if the English language really worked like that!

Phonics can be a powerful tool but it's not a magic bullet.

It does work like that. English is 97-98% phonetic. It is written alphabetically. The symbols of the alphabet represent sounds. That is the case for all alphabetic languages. Phonics is more than just a powerful tool. It is the way our written language works.

@stuffedforchristmas
They can. We don't read using phonics past a certain point and some of us never do.
Actually this is very, very interesting to me. I see lots of people assert that their children don’t use phonics to read. As an adult, can you explain how you read without the use of phonics? Because it might help me to understand why the clash between phonics/no anti phonics occurs.

They learn word shapes and families. Then like everyone else they look at the first and last letter.

English is 97-98% phonetic.

If only. It certainly isn't in KS1!

The symbols of the alphabet represent sounds.

Sometimes! It's the worst code ever. They are loosely tied to phonemes etc with no particular loyalty. You are idealistic. I teach phonics and you have to be quite bright to understand the code and that's just when it works.

I don’t know what word families are?

They learn word shapes and families. Then like everyone else they look at the first and last letter.
How does this work when you encounter a word you have not read before. For example, the word ‘chastise’ - how would you read that for the first time?

Stuffedfirchristmas ...perhaps you can give an example of when the symbols don't represent the sounds of the word ...

@stuffedforchristmas

The symbols of the alphabet represent sounds.

Sometimes! It's the worst code ever. They are loosely tied to phonemes etc with no particular loyalty. You are idealistic. I teach phonics and you have to be quite bright to understand the code and that's just when it works.

My Y6s would have a lot to explain to you about the alphabetic code.

Stuffedfirchristmas
"English is 97-98% phonetic.

If only. It certainly isn't in KS1!"

English doesn't change with age ...it's phonetic regardless

Stuffedforchristmas "They learn word shapes and families" oh dear you do know that's nonsense? Neuroscience has shown that "whole-word reading is a myth". The brain processes every single letter and does not look at the whole word shape.

Word shapes is an ineffective method of identify words ...

I'm not making a case against phonics. But surely you realise 1. English is notoriously illogical and difficult to learn as a result 2. Teaching children to learn to read in this way is a relatively new method. It's not the only way and some children find it impossibly difficult. However I use it extensively.

We muddle on as we can.

The symbols of the alphabet represent sounds.

The phonetic alphabet represents sounds.

The English alphabet doesn't always reflect the phonetic alphabet, sadly.

It's the oldest method there is and has been around for centuries.

Maybe read around the subject - your 'muddling as best you can' isn't good enough if children are struggling. Many people teachers work in very difficult circumstances but teach phonics so skilfully that every child learns to read. It's perfectly possible and children deserve the very best.

The English alphabet doesn't always reflect the phonetic alphabet, sadly.

Now you're really worrying me.

My children aren't struggling because I respond appropriately.

I hope your loyalty to one method of teaching doesn't eclipse the need to adapt.