Phonics

[MummyDolly]

So my little boy can read and write really well, his memory of words is amazing. However when it comes to phonics he cannot grasp them. He cannot sound out words or blend the sounds together.

I have got the same flash cards as his teacher to try and help but I'm just worrying he's going to fall behind in some way.

He's had his ears checked as his teacher asked me if he could hear properly etc

Just don't know what else to do 😬😬

Hey, my little one was exactly the same. So hard when they just won't grasp it isn't it? Keep on with the flash cards a couple of times a day. We also tried Reading Unlocked and found it brilliant for her phonics and reading in general, she enjoyed doing it for a short while each day. Good luck and Merry Christmas :) xx

OudRose that’s exactly the issue and listening to the sounds too.

Mooncakes When he doesn’t know words he’s quiet for a minute and then normally reads it out loud perfectly so he’s obviously doing something right. I don’t think he’s being lazy at all. He just hates phonics as he likes to go straight to writing or reading.

Ooo thank you mummax3 I will take a look. Merry Christmas to you too x

@MummyDolly

OudRose that’s exactly the issue and listening to the sounds too.

Mooncakes When he doesn’t know words he’s quiet for a minute and then normally reads it out loud perfectly so he’s obviously doing something right. I don’t think he’s being lazy at all. He just hates phonics as he likes to go straight to writing or reading.

By lazy I mean guessing the word based on the first letter rather than actually reading it.

If he can work out a completely new word in his head then he will have worked out the phonics himself eg you can read phanch because you know what sounds ph a n & ch usually make based on other words you know.

By ks2, if reading, writing and spelling ok, pupils never hear of phonics again!

It is literally a way of learning to read and it's well known that not all children are successful in doing so, but use other methods. It works for most children, hence why so much focused on it.

If your child is reading well, I wouldnt worry.

Former year 6 teacher.

Thank you Notashandyta it’s nice to know that this will all be over eventually haha.

Mooncakes he doesn’t like doing the sounds out loud or blending them out loud so I’m wondering if it’s a confidence thing

He is not required to do the sounds out loud or blend them out loud for the phonics screening test. All that matters is that he can read the real words correctly and can produce acceptable pronunciations for the made up words. If he can do that, he will pass the test.

Napody "Yes it may be possible but if a child slips up a few times, and doesn't (or has moved past) relying primarily on phonics it is obviously very possible for a reader to fail."

The purpose of the check is to identify those children who do not possess the skills and knowledge to accurately read unfamiliar words ... those at risk of reading failure in the future, those apparent good readers who rely on memory and guessing. The children who get by in the early years of primary but increasing struggle as they encounter more and more novel words in their reading and studies. Far better to identify them early than to wait until they fail.

Notashadyta "By ks2, if reading, writing and spelling ok, pupils never hear of phonics again! " unfortunately true in many classes when the teacher doesn't possess the knowledge to teach phonics. Increasingly phonics is being used throughout primary and even in secondary education as teacher knowledge improves.

*norestformrz
Can you explain in which contexts and with what objectives?
Genuinely interested how it would slot into an age appropriate (ie not an intervention for those working below) at year five onwards.

I am ks1 and 2 trained so know phonics.

Phonics in Key Stage 2 /3 generally focuses on phonics for spelling in schools that teach phonics well. Sadly in many schools phonics stops after the Phonics Screening Check rather than building knowledge.

does anyone else have a real problem understanding phonics? i've read the books/watched cbbeebies stuff but honestly if i had to explain them - just cant. Is there a good method for parents to learn them?

Phonics isn’t a special ‘thing’, it’s literally how we read - phon means sound.
We have a spoken language which we transfer to a written language by using symbols to represent the sounds in words. So if we want to show the sound ‘ssssss’ we write a squiggle = S.
All phonics is is firstly teaching children which squiggles show which sounds, and then how to put all those sounds together to make words.
They learn that the shape c shows the sound ‘c’ the shape a shows the sound ‘a’ and the shape t shows the sound ‘t’. Put those shapes together c-a-t, make the three sounds and blend them into a word ‘cat’. And that is the basis of reading.

If you can read fluently then you will still use phonics to some extent, mainly when you encounter a new word. For example, in Harry Potter we had loads of new words to read: Quidditch, muggle, Dumbledore, Horcrux etc. The only way to read these words is to use phonics to sound them out.
The phonics test is useful because it identifies children who are relying on recognising whole words in order to read. Which is fine until 1. Your brain runs out of storage space (around 500 words), or 2. You encounter a new word and have no tools to read it.

Many parents who say that their child never learned/doesn’t use phonics will find that the child just worked out the phonics code by themselves.
Specifically teaching children phonics is the fastest and most efficient way to start them reading, and has the highest success rate by far.

But you say he reads and writes well which makes me think perhaps not dyslexia

Please read up on dyslexia before you band about mis- information.

Most dyslexics can read and write perfectly well. Dyslexics have a ceiling and a lot of dyslexics are diagnosed in university.

Some indicators are speech delay, hearing difficulty, lacks focus, difficulty with time, spelling phonetically, disorganized and forgetful.

i don't understand phonics at all. obviously a good auditory learner as i don't know that i've ever missed not knowing it.

Look at letters and sounds on line

There’s a standard list of phonics

There’s games to play as well.

They aren’t difficult to sound out, just difficult to spot mid word

Phonics is shite. Two of mine went backwards when they started learning phonics. Youngest can read now and will not be going anywhere near phonics (Scotland). I wish I had been able to ask the same for the others.

If he's guessing (which can be a frustrating habit to break later), and finds the flashcards difficult, then maybe this this concentration game might be useful. I just cut a stack of note cards in half and wrote them out in large neat print and then my italic cursive under that (my oldest found different types of writing confusing for a time, so we were practicing reading and recognizing them in different ways). We never kept score or anything, but if they rushed and guessed which was the main reason for them getting it wrong, the cards went back in the pile.

Trying to make a word (particularly silly nonsense word) might help him practice phonics skills without getting into the abstract and pressure that can come from single letters/sounds. I know in really old readers, they used syllables in syllabaries for early readers rather than single sounds (some single sounds are really difficult to do on their own for many little ones) which my younger two found helpful to use, but if he's already reading well and just guessing & struggling with single sounds, then finding ways for him to practice phonics skills outside of that will hopefully help it click for him.

@MummyDolly

Thank you Notashandyta it’s nice to know that this will all be over eventually haha.

Mooncakes he doesn’t like doing the sounds out loud or blending them out loud so I’m wondering if it’s a confidence thing

I’m wondering whether it’s not that he doesn’t get phonics, but that he has got it and doesn’t see the point of blending out loud.

I’d be tempted to give him a few of the non-words from the screening check and see what he does with them.

Racletteyum "does anyone else have a real problem understanding phonics? i've read the books/watched cbbeebies stuff but honestly if i had to explain them - just cant. Is there a good method for parents to learn them?"
I highly recommend a free online course for parents https://www.udemy.com/course/help-your-child-to-read-and-write/ https:// beginners
www.udemy.com/course/help-your-child-to-read-and-write-part-2/ intermediate

Much of what BluebellsGreenbells says about dyslexia is true ...however dyslexics rarely spell phonetically because they struggle with the sounds and rely on visual memory.

Freddie is a frog puppet linked to RWI. My current school don't use RWI but Freddie still stars in our phonics lessons. He is a frog who knows all his sounds but he cannot blend so the children have to help him. He is also a frog with attitude which they love. Last lock down I had to do a video from Freddie to my class and I think they missed him more than me.

Freddie takes the pressure away as he is worse at phonics than them and they have to teach him which makes them feel good. Maybe buying your own Freddie or similar might help?

@Hawkmoth

Phonics is shite. Two of mine went backwards when they started learning phonics. Youngest can read now and will not be going anywhere near phonics (Scotland). I wish I had been able to ask the same for the others.

It really isn't. Study after study has shown that using synthetic phonics as the only method results in over 95% of children learning to read successfully, with some studies showing success rates of over 99%. No other approach gets anywhere near that success rate. Using mixed methods the success rate falls below 80%, even if phonics is one of the methods used.