If your DC are "clever" - was it obvious from the start?

[SpaceOP]

I'm not talking gifted and talented/prodigy type clever, just more general, day-to-day academic "clever" as in as they then went through school they did well academically, didn't find school difficult etc. if they went to grammar school or other selective type schools, when did you figure out that they probably would be able to do this?

To be clear, I'm fully aware that intelligence can be measured in many different ways. DS, who is, I think, quite intelligent, has never really performed at school. His intelligence is far more about emotional intelligence and street smarts - both of which are regularly commented on by teachers/other parents - but his understanding of academic subjects is relatively low.

DD appears to be quite traditionally clever - she reads very well, seems to do okay with numbers, comes home and tells me about things she's learning and is able to apply this knowledge etc etc. In our area, high schools for girls are a little limited, so in time, we'll consider grammar school or see if she can get a scholarship for a private school but obviously, at 6, she's a bit young to really assess that. But I'm trying to figure out if this sort of academic smarts is obvious from the start or not? Entirely for my own interest as clearly there is nothing we can or will do right now besides continue to send her to school!

No my son is 9 and when he started school he just couldn’t master phonics and his reading comprehension was poor.
He’s now in the top set at maths and reads at an 11 yr old level. I’m delighted obviously. I really worried he’d struggle in school like I did.
He’s like a sponge he’s so eager to know everything, he loves researching and finding out why and how things work.
Long may it last 🙏

I think it’s about lots of things.

No1 was clearly academically bright from the start, talked really early in sentences etc. Could read well by first half term at school. All A/A* at gcse, AAB A levels, first class degree. Initially lazy where school work was concerned but flew through gcse and only found work ethic once A levels were difficult.

No2 much slower and didn’t actually show any great flair until year 6/7 when he achieved some of the highest cat scores the school had seen. All A/A* at gcse, AAB a levels, on track for excellent degree. Massive work ethic, works incredibly hard at everything.

No3 academically bright from day 1 BUT until this year - sweet FA work ethic. Teacher commented she was clearly the brightest of our children but not likely to do as well as her siblings due to poor attitude.

My DD is reasonably bright, now 6 and always was a smart baby and toddler. However now I fell her development is slowing vs other and becoming more average every day. She is brilliant at reasoning but not that "academic" or curious, ok reading but could do better honestly. Time will tell, but I can see how it is really difficult to predict for some children.

My son (super bright still) was watching me putting on a black bra when he was tiny (just starting to talk). He pointed at it, and said “Sunglasses for your num nums” (his word for my breasts Made me absolutely howl.

My eldest daughter was clever right from the start. At her first parents’ meeting the teacher said “ well what a bright spark”. She continued in the same way all the way through all her education getting As and A*s in nearly everything and is now a Solicitor. She always seemed to find everything quite easy. My middle child (daughter) always had to work harder for the same results and is very easily stressed and driven to succeed. She has deferred uni until next year. My 10 year old son, I can’t quite fathom yet. Certainly clever enough but schools seem to give less away now. However he is a bit lazy (with homework, not in school) but also very keen to please, so who knows where that will go!

I have 2 dc, both extremely bright.
One sailed through primary school and is now tg at secondary in most subjects. I've never had to help her with hw, she is so good and just does her work.

My second dc may have dyslexia. She's never been into us reading to her or anything like that. She's found learning to read through phonics very hard.

Lock down has been amazing for her and we managed to improve her all around and her learning generally.

Both are very bright but the possible dyslexic is such a lateral thinker always coming up with solutions to any problem.. Extremely creative, and has a fascinating thought process.
I can imagine the book worm dd 1 becoming a writer, or script polisher, her English is amazing... Or something solid like a lawyer, even a barrister.. She has amazing sense of logic and argument.

However it's dd 2 who would come up with solutions to massive problems... It's she who would have the potential to create or have her own business... That is if course if I can get her through our crushing education system without Letting her get crushed!!

My kids are all clever. I knew my eldest was by they time he was about 3, he was just sharp, articulate and very smart. He didn’t work hard at primary, was lazy and disinterested. He was also not very resilient. We took a decision to send him to an excellent state school rather Than a selective private school. Best decision, I knew he was best as a big fish and he had absolutely flown. I knew he was smart so made sure he was prepped for top sets. Absolutely the right place for him: he got great GCSE’s, all 9 and 8 and on track for great A levels

DD took longer to get going. I actually thought she was average but she’s smart and competitive and she has focus. I probably knew that when she was about 9, until then I thought she was average. Also top sets. Her competitive streak means she will make sure she does at least as well as her brother. There’s nothing she’s not good at

Youngest was obvious how smart he was from a baby. He grasps everything immediately, he’s far and away the brightest of my 3. Nothing is hard for him. You only have to speak to him to know he’s clever, he just wants to know everything and is totally curious. But my gd he’s lazy. He does the absolutely minimum he can get away with and he couldn’t care less if he does well or not. I only hope he grows out of it and pulls his socks up

Interesting question OP. DS6 and DD5 are diametrically opposite. She is bringing to light some things (since we all dont know what to expect with the first) e.g. that he is actually quite far behind in reading, lazy, possibly has AdHD, very unmotivated but verbose and articulate (I always remind myself NOT to start arguing with him). She is keen to learn, takes longer with new maths concepts (but once she gets it, she gets it), is methodical (easier to teach but all about practice more rote learning) and perfectionist (wants to spell everything right and cries if she is corrected). Maybe too soon but I already told DH she is "grammar material" and I'm struggling with DS.

I have NO clue how bright or academic either of them are so following with interest.

Just to add my 2p's worth......
I have 4 boys and only can comment on the older 2, but I'm very grateful we live in a comprehensive area.
All started school a bit slow and behind.... Aged 7 I would ( privately) tear my hair out that they couldn't read and their handwriting was shocking. I can remember a KS2 writing test where he didn't even get a mark at all as he hadn't written enough. Pretty sure none would have passed their 11 plus. However all were interested in the world around them, had a good vocabulary and enjoyed to chat!

Fast forward to now.... Eldest was very much middle.set comprehensive until year 11 and then a switch changed and he is doing really well. 6-9 in GCSE and is hopefully on track to straight a/a* at a level. I also wouldn't have predicted he would love the humanities and essay writing! He's always had a really good attitude but I wouldn't have predicted those a levels when he was in year 7. He's a very different young man from the child he was at 5!
Second son seems on a similar trajectory.

I'm always a bit aghast now at the threads worrying about academics at primary school..... My children have taught me that if you foster a good attitude towards learning and then trust them to get their in their own time..... They may get there at 10 or 30 but they will get there eventually!

I have 3 dc, now all teens, all at super selective grammars. I am also a primary school teacher.

Not one of them was an early reader. But we were a massive reading family, they had books read to them from early age and unitl they were 9/10 (their choice, as well as reading on their own)

ds was a really slow starter, his reading was poor, and he didn't take off until he was year 3. I used to teach year 3 and 4, and I think boys developing late is fairly common.
BUT he was massively articulate. Could hold long interesting conversations about many subjects. On that basis I knew he was clever.

dd1, I didn't try and teach her to read before school, just basic verbal phonics, and she was on chapter books before the end of reception. But she is VERY quiet in class, so school massively underestimated her for a year or 2.

dd2, learnt to read quickly, in top reading group from day 1.

My mum used to say, the way to spot if a child is intelligent is things like - at 18 months they are playign outside and get too hot, so they move into the shade. In others words, intelligence is often seen in other things, curiosity, interest in science/nature, ability to play board games, ability carry on interesting conversations and understand quite complex ideas and so on.

I think I knew all 3 were bright. And I knew dd2's class at school well as I used to help out. From reception it was clear who were in the top 10-20%. That didn't change much as they went through to year 6. But I have also never stressed or pushed. I am much more interested in a well rounded child. Dd2 fro example has real issues around making and keeping friends. I would swap some of her brains for some good social skills

DC1 was talking well by age 1. Spellings were no issue at all. Neither was reading or maths. DC was full marks for everthing and went to a high achieving school and grammar school etc and continues to be level 9 across the board. DC researched schools themselves and organised their own tests for school (selective) and exams. I will be asked to buy CGP guides etc or asked for help if needed but mainly they are self taught and self learn.

Youngest DC I think is brighter. Non verbal until 3. Was deaf -operation for glue ear and that sorted. Has some talking issues. Maths -way ahead but it's been a battle as many people thought she had behaviour issues (I didn't - I thought she couldn't hear properly). Currently 2 years ahead in maths. Very very lazy and will play every trick in the book and then some to get you to do her reading for her or indeed anything. Very quick to turn on the waterworks rather than try. With my Dad -she didn't like him when she was younger -massive crying all the time -he's partly deaf, she had speech problems -she's improved massively but Grandad doesn't take any messing around or negiotate with a toddler -now they understand each other better -the relationship is better and she adores him. She will not mess him around. Even now I'm home schooling today as we isolated and she is writing out some verbs and adding ing -and will often spend 4 hours playing (even though she is sat at the table) rather than bloody do the work. Give her a lock and she'll have unpicked it in 20 seconds -same with working something out.

My oldest was clever, very interested in reading. Reading at home from four years old. Went to a very average comprehensive and a local Further Education College/Sixth Form College for A Levels. Got a place to read Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Has done very well professionally.
Youngest, not academic but always tried so hard. Followed the eldest through the local comp and Sixth Form College. Was asked by Cambridge to apply after a summer school course for kids from state schools. Went to Cambridge, got a first. Has done really well professionally.
I do think that both of them were advantaged by applying from a State Comp. My oldest child is traditionally academic. The youngest had such determination to succeed that he overcame any barriers.

It was clear my DS was clever from an early age. He started talking early and was in the top groups for everything and exceeding expectations in all the core subjects throughout Primary school without any additional work apart from home work. Autumn born, so everything came easy to him. I have read to him a lot since he was a few weeks old, he's always been into books and reading. He is 12 now, in grammar school, passed easily with high marks.
My DD is very young in her year, and was "only" average in her class. As she's always been the "baby" in the family we haven't intervened when we should have done when she was falling behind perhaps. She is shy at school so that doesn't help her as she mumbles her reading and doesn't come forward with the information she knows. During lockdown I was furloughed, and I got to spend 1:1 time with her, identified knowledge gaps, she came on brilliantly and now she is exceeding expectations at maths and her other skills have come on marvellously. She has also become very studious and much more willing to do her homework, I think that she gas gained in confidence. She is a late developer, and I know think she will do as well as her brother if not better, as her attitude is better.

Ultimately, in terms of academic success, having the determination to work hard and succeed is often more important than having a high IQ. I speak as a teacher.

My eldest two were very bright from the start. Both could do basic maths and reading at 3. My daughter has an especially good memory. They are both school captains and top of all subjects. With no real coaching from me or DH. My youngest is totally different and has gone into primary school as the youngest in her class and is in the bottom reading group. She struggles but we are working hard with her!

Jigsaws as a baby (the lift-in wooden ones). DS was remarkably more advanced at managing these vs other babies the same age and a teacher friend told us this is indicative of intelligence. Also didn't sleep - another sign apparently!

But academically, prob not noticable until Year 2.

It’s a combination of both. Being clever is good. Being hard-working is good. But being clever and hard-working is unbeatable!

I had little experience of children when I had ds. The odd-job man I had in remarked, “Look at your nipper! “ because he was doing a 100-piece jigsaw when he was 3. Ds was a clot in a lot of ways, but he is The Memory Man and I have spent years being tested on superheroes and all their powers, cricketers, full cast lists of various tv programmes etc. I don’t know where he gets it from because my memory is pitiful.

I've not RTFT ...

DD was one of the few from her primary school to go to GS and I think the only one who ended up at oxbridge (engineering) so objectively 'clever'. She always seemed bright but her reading was behind most of the others throughout KS1. It really didn't click till yr 3, and she never really liked reading fiction for pleasure much (fortunately we both enjoyed me reading to her, into her early teens).

We didn't realise she might be in with a chance at the GS (a 'residual place' as were out of catchment) until she did CAT tests in year 5.

She takes after DH - he also was a 'late developer' who then accelerated.

She was always interested in the world ... on journeys, she'd often demand 'talk about something interesting'. DH was good at this, taking inspiration from what we were passing - I remember some long discussions about power generation and distribution prompted by pylons and substations.

Reading the thread backwards a bit Also didn't sleep - another sign apparently! ... well, yes we had that!

I don’t think you can tell, no.

Both of mine were average in primary school. Neither picked up reading easily, weren’t free reading until year 3.

They never showed signs of being anything other than average. Went to normal comprehensives, they do pretty much the minimum to keep up, no homework all night or anything. Both do a lot of sport.

I’ve been getting reports, and not really paying attention. The numbers have stayed consistent and the effort scores are always high so that was good enough for me.

Until I checked last year as I was helping dd look at US uni’s, and had to estimate a GPA. I honestly thought she was on for B’s and C’s at GCSE, turns out a 7 is an A and an 8 is an A. So she’s on for A and A.

Dd2 doesn’t even have as much of a work ethic and is still on for straight A’s.

I know many parents who seem to think their child is super clever, yet Academic results don’t back that up.

I suppose a lot is relative. I worked in academia and post grad research so my measure of intelligence is maybe a bit skewed.

The one who is academically very bright started speaking at 9m and has kept that differential with peers, iyswim, right through.
He is very smart - for eg had got to grips with quite a lot of cultural theory/political philosophy at 16/17
He struggles with other stuff though.

The one of mine who is in Grammar has always been obviously switched on and inquisitive . Also a terrible sleeper . Not being a teacher though it’s only become apparent just how bright he is as he’s got older , has had the CATs tests and scored highly on the 11+ . In reality though he’s just as tech obsessed as any other teenager and I do worry he’ll waste his brains!

My younger child has always struggled , won’t read , but again as he’s got older it’s become apparent from the testing and the sheer amount of lip I get that he’s not stupid either ! I think he’s a late developer and am watching this space .

Yes and interested parents are very important (not tiger parenting) - exposure and talks about everything and anything.

I have 3 children and all are different but all quite clever.

DS1 is now 13. he has always been a little genius. he didnt utter a single word until he was nearly 2.5 but when he did he went straight to proper talking and we also realised he could read fluently. When he started school they had the Ed Pysch assess him and his reading (and comprehension) age was 14 years. He was assessed as having a lot of ASD traits. He is a little sponge and soaks up knowledge, loves facts and figures and can win any quiz!
BUT he has poor fine motor skills, lack of social skills and no real hobbies.

DD who is now 12 has always been inquisitive and bright. HV was astounded with her conversational skills and vocab at her 2 year check. Shes very creative, gets along with everyone and anyone, very practical and able to problem solve. Shes clever but not genius clever. Just had reading assessment at school and hers came back as age 15.

DS1 is 9 and took ages to learn to read, he had hearing problems and so need speech theraphy etc but now has caught up. he maths skills are amazing and hes brilliant at building stuff either from wood or lego etc. he came home from school and said that thier lego house model (that people can add a brick to when they are good) wasnt structurally sound and was going to fall down any minute as they hadn't spaced the bricks properly.

Now I know every parent thinks their child is amazing and the best etc but all 3 of mine are bright although DS1 is very clever. But out of all of them i think DD will be the most sucessful at life as she has the other soft skills that will enable her to get on with colleagues, play the system to get promotion etc whereas DS1 although will have the knowledge to do something great he wont be able to be part of a team etc due to his ASD.

DS is a real “genius” type kid - he was mega alert from birth, amazed people holding his head up at baby groups way before anyone else, spelled words out with his foam bath letters at 18 months and so on. Was always, very obviously, very smart, always thinking one step ahead, spoke in sentences early, read fluently at 3 etc. Now he’s 9 and is still very clever but doesn't work especially hard because everything at school has always been easy. Reads everything, makes amazing Lego models, has a detailed recall and understanding of lots of facts and so on, but not sure how this will relate to academic success long-term.

DD is more conventionally clever. Seemed slow in comparison to her brother but was reading at 4, is very quick and thoughtful, good at maths, and is WAY more likely in my opinion to do well in her exams later and to be a “top of the class” type, because she’s diligent, listens carefully, sits quietly and does what she’s told.