Stigma related to summer born deferral

[BlusteryShowers]

I am considering deferring my July born son to start Reception a year later. I wasn't going to but missing preschool due to covid and wider reading has made me question this again. He's currently 3yo.

I wanted to hear from those who have sent their summer born to Reception after age 5 and whether you think it was the right decision.

*- Have you or your child come across any stigma from other families about them being in the "wrong" year?

• My son has always been 98th centile for height. Does your child seem noticeably older than their peers? Has this caused any issues?

• Is/was your child bored by the extra year at preschool?

• Did you discuss this with your preschool provider and was their assessment of your child's readiness helpful?*

Thanks in advance for any replies.

I'm a teacher, currently in KS1 but I have taught reception. There are often differences in maturity and other aspects between autumn born children and summer born children when they start school. However, that on its own certainly doesn't mean that those summer borns suffer in school. Some absolutely thrive so you need to change the mindset of summer born = detrimental and think about the specifics of your child.

I would question why a July birthday with no additional needs would need to defer. My experience has only every been with children with quite severe medical needs or children who were born quite prematurely in August and have developmental needs because of their prematurity. It's not normal for a summer birthday with no needs to defer, even very late August birthdays. Teachers are skilled at meeting the needs of all of their class and EYFS teachers are certainly aware of individual needs which may be to do with birth date.

From a parent point of view, your child would be in the same year group as my DS to start next September? I really don't think missing preschool during this CV period with another full year of preschool to go could justify a deferral on its own. I would apply as normal and see how he gets on at preschool this academic year.

To the Scottish poster above .....Do you know if kids from deprived backgrounds are as likely to defer as the more well off? In England it seems to be parents defer for SEN which can be sensible depending on the problem or it’s something done by more ambitious parents wanting their child to achieve more by being the oldest

I kept my July son back last year, he did have sleep apnoea, so was very tired and getting ill a lot, he was also very under weight because of all the issues, but even without them issues he was just not socially ready for school, academically he would of been fine but he is so shy, he wouldn't of coped at all.. Obviously he hasn't started school yet so not sure what it's going to be like, but honestly I have no regrets at all.

I really think it depends on the child. I also have a daughter just turned 3 in July and I don't think I'll hold her back because she's just so much more confident and outgoing.

I would question why a July birthday with no additional needs would need to defer. My experience has only every been with children with quite severe medical needs or children who were born quite prematurely in August and have developmental needs because of their prematurity. It's not normal for a summer birthday with no needs to defer, even very late August birthdays. Teachers are skilled at meeting the needs of all of their class and EYFS teachers are certainly aware of individual needs which may be to do with birth date.

100% agree with the above poster. It would be very unusual for someone to defer solely because of the child's birthday.

A lot of children are going to be in the same position of having less time at nursery because of Covid, and although I would never judge a parent for deferring, I would be very bemused by your reasons.

There is no disadvantage to being summer born after primary school, and very little after infants.

Unless you look at the stats for Oxbridge entry by birth month.

My late August born DS is going into Y6 now- he's in his 'correct' year group. He has struggled at various points.

Reception was absolutely fine (however there were 8 in his class with teacher and TA so he got a lot of help). Y1 was very difficult because he just wasn't wasn't ready to write and as it was required in every subject he fell behind. I wouldn't have been bothered, but he could see he couldn't write and most other children could and it affected his self-esteem and opinion of himself as a learner. Y3 was also hard at the start because much more independence was required and he just wasn't ready to be that self-organised.

He's doing brilliantly just now and his academic confidence is increasing all the time. He's always been fine socially.

What has made the difference for him though, is that he's in a laid back non-selective prep where they have always recognised that he is an able child and been happy to just to wait for him developmentally. They have supported him gently without putting any pressure on him or making him feel different.

I know that in a state school (I'm a primary teacher) he would have spent the whole of KS1 at least in 'intervention', sitting in corridor groups with a TA in lesson time and missing foundation subjects/ assembly/ PE to try to 'catch him up'. He REALLY didn't need that. He just needed time. But a state school would have done it- so he passed the phonics check.. so he passed KS1 SATs.. so he could do cursive handwriting... so he made their 'summer born boy' data extraction look better... He would have been crushed by all that 'help' and I would have deferred to avoid it.

To the Scottish poster above .....Do you know if kids from deprived backgrounds are as likely to defer as the more well off?

Honestly I don't know. I live in the epitome of Scottish leafy suburbia and it's probably over 80% of Jan/Feb children who are deferred. More boys than girls.

It's a different mindset - it's not about wanting them to achieve more, or them being "better" than their peers or being top of the class by dint of being the oldest. Most parents talk about an extra year giving them added maturity, being socially and emotionally more ready for school.

Also meant to add that deferral is so common that most pre-schools and nurseries are completely geared up for it. My oldest isn't deferred but his birthday is the first week of March, so was 5 in March and went to school the following August. He was reading fluently before he went to school and the wonderful pre-school we great and engaging ALL of the children with activities appropriate to their age and stage.

I'm an EYFs teacher, a parent of an August born and I lived abroad (in Belgium) most of my life.
In Belgium, and in a lot of other European countries, children don't start primary school until they are 6 years old. In Belgium, they go to Early Years from age 2 and a half and have 4 years of play based learning. 4 years! I believe that once upon a time, Reception was very much play based in this country but after working in Reception classes here (England), the expectations on reading and writing are very high for some children.
Now, I agree with pp that say their children (or themselves) thrived at school despite being the youngest. I have chosen to defer my ds. He should start Reception in September after turning 4 at the end of this month. He is in no way ready from a personal and social point of view. He lacks confidence and maturity and is the kind of child who won't do something until he's confident he'll succeed. Being forced into writing will not benefit him.
He is in a wonderful nursery who are able to differentiate the work to each child so I am in no way worried he'll be bored.
Someone suggested the Flexible Summer born Facebook group above. I highly recommend it, it's a wealth of information.
You're always going to get a divided opinion on this subject but at the end of the day, only you can do the research and make an informed decision for your child.

We considered it for our end of June born DD. She was speech delayed, shy and at 4yo could barely count to 10.

She's 9 now. School hasn't been easy for her academically. But she's catching up. She was (back in Feb) on track to reach Exceeding in some areas by Yr6, with Meeting Age Expectations in other areas. She's one of the tallest girls in her year- despite being one of the youngest. She's a lot more mature socially than those in the year below... This started to become obvious in Yr3 (the Yr2s were very babyish in comparison- not in a bad way, just it was obvious they were younger). Her SEN was picked up early- it would have been hidden in the year beliw. I think not deferring was the right decision in the long run.

Looking back, the biggest disadvantage for summer Born's is preschool/nursery. At both age 2&3, she was 'held back' in the toddler class then the 2yo class until September, whereas children born earlier in their year moved up around their birthdays- but the last move up date was May. Then missed the formal preschool class altogether- as the late summer Born's were kept with their peer group. Whereas her sister, born in March, did 4 terms of formal preschool, starting within days of turning 3.

the first year this came available to do was when my lb was starting school and I thought about doing it and everyone said I was being ridiculous and he'd be fine however he is now year 3 going into year 3 and is way behind and it's one of my biggest and it is one of my biggest regrets as a mum so far as I could have made his life so much easier if id has done it. I'm not sure what the negatives would be but if you think he's not ready academically I'd say go for it. struggling in school affects confidence so much.

Year 2 going into year 3 that was meant to say

I also think the school you choose plays a huge part. As I said, I teach KS1 and very much believe in a play based approach as much as possible in Year 1 and 2 because I believe it's best for all children, not just the youngest in the year. (Our data and standards is still very good for those who may be thinking it has an impact on academic standards!)

I think the Scottish comparison is really interesting but it's my understanding that it's not comparing like for like as P1 is generally more formal than Reception. So the youngest in the year group in Scotland would not necessarily be in the same environment as the youngest in the year group in England. I think Scottish Preschools are much more geared up to supporting reception type curriculum because they cater for older children.

I've also lived in Belgium but it wasn't my experience that the schools were particularly early years friendly. 22 2 and half year olds in a class with one teacher and no teaching assistants really concerned me! Also the absolute insistence of potty training by 2 and half so that they could attend school. I'm also not keen on the shift in approach when they did reach 6 as it's so formal for such little children.

I think my point is that each system has its strengths and weaknesses. It's very difficult to make blanket like for like comparisons.

Also - and my final point only - in England you have children starting school this September who will be 5 within a couple of days of term starting anyway, or already 5 if their birthday is 1st or 2nd September. Are a couple of deferred children born just 6 or 8 weeks before these oldest children in the year group going to make such a huge difference?

We did it for our DC who was August-born but so prem that their due date was November. Now year 4 and it still totally feels like they are in the right cohort, I don't regret it. They are only a week away from the cut off, and their first few years were such a struggle due to all the prematurity related health conditions (physically some of those are ongoing).

This is the first time my DC has started to notice, but I explained about the cut off and that the doctors and us made a decision about the best place for them. They're fine with that and their friends seem very chilled too.

Sock They may only be 8 weeks older than the September born children but they could be a year and almost 2 months older than a late August born.

There's no easy answer because there has to be arbitrary cut off dates.

I do think you need to think long and hard about the end part of school as others have said it does cause some complications.

Agree @careerchange456 that you can't do a direct P1 = Reception comparison. But the topic of deferral is the same whichever system you're talking about.

Yes pre-schools are dealing with a lot of the stuff which would be covered in reception in England/Wales but I don't see how that would change if more English/Welsh parents started deferring their children, people talk about children being a whole year older but they're really not.

A child born in July/August this year who is now 4 and deferred will be in nursery/pre-school this September with other children who will be 4 in September, October, November. Pre-schools cope fine with those autumn-born, oldest children i'm assuming? So you're just adding another, marginally older child, into the mix.

Honestly, it's not a big deal. Someone further up mentioned cut-offs for out of school clubs and activities, and children being deferred being put into an age group with children from the year above. In my experience groups like Guides or Scouts do go on birthday, but again your child who is deferred will still move up with older children from their own age group. Other things my kids do like dancing, gymnastics, drama group children depending on which school year they're in, irrespective of when their birthday is.

@winetime89

the first year this came available to do was when my lb was starting school and I thought about doing it and everyone said I was being ridiculous and he'd be fine however he is now year 3 going into year 3 and is way behind and it's one of my biggest and it is one of my biggest regrets as a mum so far as I could have made his life so much easier if id has done it. I'm not sure what the negatives would be but if you think he's not ready academically I'd say go for it. struggling in school affects confidence so much.

If it only came in for children who will now be in year three it shows they haven't yet got to senior school. Primary will be fine secondary not as my pp said because the whole system, in and outside of school works on the school year. SN can get dispensation but a NT kid won't.

Sock They may only be 8 weeks older than the September born children but they could be a year and almost 2 months older than a late August born.

Totally agree. But in my DS's class (he's just finished Primary in Scotland) the oldest child was 12 between Christmas and New Year 2019, the youngest won't be 12 until about 20th February 2021. It really doesn't cause any problems at all. It's just all very normal to us and it seems weird from a Scottish perspective that so many English/Welsh parents are tearing themselves up over something so routine.

We did it. My dd was so shy, and little and I was a sahm. So we deferred. Shes just about to ho into year2 now and honestly best decision we made, she isn't noticable bigger/ more maturity shes in the right grouping she would have struggled I think. In your situation I would defer.
Also mo stigma, we were quite open about it and one of her friends birthday is 1st September and shes August born so literally a few weeks between them. Best thing we did for her.

I thought the policy was that if you defer when your child did start school they would go into the correct year group for their age (ie defer one year then the following September they would join year 1) unless very special circumstances (eg. SEN, prematurity etc). Or you get put into the correct year for senior school (ie go from year 5 to year 7, which would be a nightmare)

It happens more often in private schools but for some I think it is to get an academic advantage - my dc was in a class with an August born child with no SEN whose parents had chosen to put him in the year below. He was several inches taller than the other kids, was always top of the class, won loads of prizes, and every year beat all of the others on sports day. To be honest he was a complete nightmare show off.

Ultimately, OP, you do what works best for you. Mumsnet generally is against summer borns delaying entry. I'm going to defer my June born, fairly able for her age, DD because I teach and I've seen the increase in anxiety and the problems socialising that so many summer borns have. The data shows they're more likely to suffer from anxiety and depression as adults and more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD and other SEN, purely because they're younger and so are judged against an unfair benchmark. Personally, I think we start school far too early in this country anyway and would support a system like that in Scotland, where parents can choose which year to start them in and no one bats an eye. I'm hoping for a similar change in policy here at some point.

I'd go on the Facebook group I posted upthread, you do get a lot of claims on here about summer born delayed entries that simply aren't true.

Fourplasticrings- I do get the reasoning (I am also a teacher) but do you not have any worries about problems later on? For example there is no guarantee she will stay in the same year group for senior school and she may not be able to play in sports teams with her own year group? Also although there may be no stigma now, later on there might be?

My daughter is still 3 but will be starting Reception in September. My youngest is also a summer born and I expect she will do the same when it's her turn.

My eldest is definitely ready for school, but she has been at the nursery at her school for a year (minus time off due to Covid of course), wears the same uniform, classroom is next door to reception, goes to school assemblies etc, so for her I don't really know if she'll differentiate between this year and last apart from the fact that she's in for more days of the week.

I would just say you know your own child. If you don't think they are ready then there is no harm in deferring. If he is still only 3 then there isn't much difference between him and a kid that turns 4 on the 1st September, they will also be a whole year older than some of the children in their class.

For what it's worth, from teacher friends I have asked about this topic they have said, academically, children end up falling into their natural place whether or not they defer. The main thing that stands out with summer born in year R are things like being able to dress themselves/go to the loo totally independently, and some social skills with peers. But again, they all catch up.

I think there should be more wiggle room generally to move between years in primary.

I have a very early September birthday and spent quite a lot of time bored out of my tiny little mind at infants. In juniors I was placed in the class above, but then they are moved to high school and I had to basically do year 6 again.

Not being stretched made me really lazy - I scored worse in GCSEs which involved effort/coursework/something I didn't enjoy (though I did very well generally).

My brother was a prem July baby (and a late developer) and could definitely have done with an extra year to grow up before taking GCSEs.

I went to uni with a couple of people who had skipped years at private schools and done really well.

I think being grouped by ability and maturity (within a reasonable age band) works well,

My DS2 is being educated out of year because he started school in a country where they start later. When we moved to England they tried to "jump" him into the appropriate year for his age and it was a complete disaster. His new teacher realised on the first day that he wasn't capable of year 6 work and the school asked whether they could move him "back" to year 5 which was actually the year he would have been going into in our old country.

- Have you or your child come across any stigma from other families about them being in the "wrong" year?

No, the school managed it extremely well and there have been no issues. For his birthday parties we always write e.g. "DS2's 12th birthday party" on the invitations because otherwise he gets cards with the wrong age on because people forget. It's a totally minor issue and easily solved with the reminder.

- My son has always been 98th centile for height. Does your child seem noticeably older than their peers? Has this caused any issues?

Right now (going into year 9) he is much taller than most of his friendship group because he hit puberty earlier on - he is a more than a year older than a couple of his friends. However children vary so much in height and development that most of the time there was no noticeable difference. He happens to be taller than his friends but he isn't the tallest in the school year.

- Is/was your child bored by the extra year at preschool?
N/A

- Did you discuss this with your preschool provider and was their assessment of your child's readiness helpful?
Not the same process but there were concerns that the high school might decide to put DS2 back into his correct year group for age, i.e. start high school straight into year 8, missing out year 7 entirely. We knew which school he would be going to and they were perfectly willing to confirm that they would keep educating him out of year once he started there. We also had to apply to the council alongside the school for permission to educate him out of year and this was only accepted because he has learning difficulties. I think without the statement of special educational needs he would not have been permitted to move school years.