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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Waiting for offers this week...

149 replies

Marahute · 14/04/2020 12:31

Anyone else waiting nervously for the school place offers on Thursday?

I know we aren't likely to get our first choice really, as we aren't in catchment and it's a very popular school. But until we find out I keep allowing myself to hope...

I know all our choices are fine, and I think we have a good chance of getting our second choice, but I am still feeling irrationally nervous about it all.

Join me won't you?

OP posts:

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Dottydoodoo · 17/04/2020 07:08

@stickwoman I’m so sorry it’s really rubbish isn’t it. I’ve been awake since 4am just crying on and off because I can’t believe this has happened to my poor DS.

I’m going to do some more research today and see if we have any grounds for appealing on distance as I’ve been doing the crow flies measurements and we are much closer to our first choice school then I originally thought, it will be interesting to know how far the furthest child who got in was.

I had to get onto the waiting lists myself, two schools are faith schools so I had to call them myself and ask to be put on the list and the other school I have had to email the LA to put us on their list. The info about who got a place I found in our allocation letter online, there were lots of clicky links within it which took me to the list of all schools in the county and showed how many had put it as 1st, 2nd etc. Although when I phoned admissions they were very helpful so maybe yours would be too?

It’s so rubbish. I have a friend in exactly the same position but she is also refusing to accept the place. I really feel like doing this too but don’t expect it will help my DS in the long run. The thought of sending him there in September though is filling me with pure dread. Why is it things just never work out for some people?!

justdontatme · 17/04/2020 08:01

Don’t refuse the place! Even if you don’t send him there you’re better off with a place in hand than not.

Dottydoodoo · 17/04/2020 08:09

I will accept the place! I can’t bring myself to do it just yet but I will I promise!

I’ve just been doing some googling - our third choice school accepted their furthest child from 2.487 metres, well according to the crow flies distance we are 2.306 metres away postcode to postcode so what’s going on there!!!! I’m going to call admissions when they open and find out what that schools category 3 criteria is because I can’t find it anywhere, and how they work out their distances? Does anyone think I would have a reasonable chance of submitting an appeal on these grounds?

Oysterbabe · 17/04/2020 08:16

I know they do pick a point in the middle of the school and the middle of your house rather than from the gate.

Pinkybutterfly · 17/04/2020 08:24

We didn't get any of our 3 choices. Got allocated to a further away school that is inadequate. I am so upset. I have put him the the waiting lists for the school's we chose... I'm going to appeal but I don't think it will help..

prh47bridge · 17/04/2020 08:26

but I don’t know on what grounds we would appeal

Most reception appeals are infant class size cases which means you can only win if the admission arrangements break relevant law or the Admissions Code, or the admission arrangements haven't been implemented correctly, or the decision to refuse admission was unreasonable (which essentially means irrational). You can appeal even if you haven't got evidence of a mistake and you might strike it lucky. Sometimes information emerges during the hearing showing that a mistake was made. But, if you don't have evidence of a mistake, an appeal is a long shot. You won't lose anything by trying but don't pin your hopes on it.

If the appeal is not an infant class size case it is easier to win. You can still win on the grounds listed above but you can also win by showing that the disadvantage to your child from not attending this school outweighs the problems the school will face from having to cope with an additional child.

well according to the crow flies distance we are 2.306 metres away postcode to postcode so what’s going on there

The clue is in the "postcode to postcode" bit. You share your postcode with a number of other houses. Online tools measure from the centre of the postcode, which can be some distance from your house. The school probably has its own postcode but the online tool is likely to use a point roughly in the middle of the area covered by the school (including its playing fields).

The LA will have used a very accurate tool that measures from a defined point on your property to a defined point on the school's property.

You also need to check how distances are measured. Some schools/LAs use straight line distance, others use the shortest walking route. If they use straight line distance it is unlikely they have made a mistake. Shortest walking route is more prone to error.

Thelonggrass · 17/04/2020 15:14

Hi does anyone know if it is always from a point in the middle of the school they use, or is it school gate? Or does it vary from authority to authority.

Oysterbabe · 17/04/2020 15:18

It's usually the middle of the school grounds.

PatriciaHolm · 17/04/2020 15:25

Thelonggrass - it differs. Sometimes it is the front gate, sometimes a mid point in the school. If a school has more than one entrance, it may well be a measurement to the nearest entrance you could use. The admissions criteria should say.

The tools is far more specific than, say, Google Maps, and will provide a distance from a very specific seed point in your home (not postcode) to a seed point in the school.

MrsMoon1 · 17/04/2020 15:41

Has anyone heard of positive outcomes from being on a waiting list for a popular school - as I can’t imagine anyone giving up their place?! We live very close to our first choice school Ashmole Primary in Southgate, London. Just don’t want to get my hopes up that a place might come up if actually in reality the chances are very small...

geojojo · 17/04/2020 16:03

My friend's son was literally just offered a place before lockdown at her first choice place, an extremely popular school, after being on the waiting list. He had obviously had over a term at the school she was given but will be moving him when he goes back.

Dottydoodoo · 17/04/2020 16:42

So I spoke with the admissions team again, I was on the phone for ages I think the poor guy was really bored/lonely! He was able to tell us that there were 21 people who applied and didnt get that particular school according to the distance criteria and out of those 21 we were the 5th. So not top of the list but much more promising than being the 21st. No grounds for an appeal though as there were four people closer to the school than us. I think I was just desperately clutching at straws with that appeal idea anyway. The other two schools I will try and find out how many places we were from having a place.

I’m feeling slightly more positive about this today. I do not want DS to go to his allocated school for the whole of his primary life, but even if he has to do 2 years it won’t be so bad, I don’t think

I’m still torn as to whether to appeal just so I know I have done everything I possibly can. Would I do this on the thing of questioning that they have made an error, or would it be best to give reasons that the school/schools would be the best thing for DS - I would have to come up with some pretty good reasons I just don’t have anything which means it would be detrimental to him to not be there. Grrrrrr! Why is it all so confusing?!!

stickwoman · 17/04/2020 18:40

Hi Dotty, sorry it's been a busy day of phone calls here (and dealing with bored screaming children!) I've done the same - spoken to admissions and to all the schools. Also same situation, I don't know if I can appeal as seems they have followed the guidelines although I am quicker to drive and walk to the school than lots of others that got in but they are closer from point to point! It seems so unfair. The school we have been given is miles away there another 5 schools closer to us than that! I'm going to try to appeal as like you say you know then you've done all you can.

Can I ask where roughly you are? They didn't tell me any information about how many applied / didn't get etc. I've heard this can be online too but I can't find it so think it must be different in our LA.

prh47bridge · 17/04/2020 18:41

If it is an infant class size case you can only win if they've made a mistake. You don't have to identify a mistake to appeal. Sometimes evidence of a mistake emerges in the hearing. But if you haven't identified a mistake before the hearing you need to be realistic about your chances.

Regardless of whether or not you have evidence of a mistake, you need to show that your son will be disadvantaged if he doesn't go to this school. If a mistake affected a number of children the appeal panel have to compare cases to decide which ones to admit. Look for things this school offers that are not available from the allocated school and that are relevant to your son.

MrsRaab · 17/04/2020 19:20

We've got to make the decision whether to keep our twins in the same class or split them up now, I'd forgotten about that bit!

Original poster

Marahute · 17/04/2020 19:27

I think we are going to go on the waiting list for our first choice. I am a bit torn but it's so much closer than our second choice, and a non-faith school, which I prefer. It's hard to decide what is best though, as we did like the second choice too, and for slightly different reasons.
I have emailed the LA to ask if we can withdraw from the list if we change our mind, and also to find out if they can tell us what our position is (I have a suspicion we may not have missed out by much but will be interesting to see either way).
Does anyone know when the second set of allocations is made (once everyone has accepted/rejected their offers)? Just wondering how soon we could potentially find out.

OP posts:

Original poster

Marahute · 17/04/2020 19:34

Oh and because we didn't get our first choice, they are sending a letter with more information explaining the decision, anyone know what this will have in it?
I'm curious about how they measured the distance to our house, as we live in a new build and we aren't on Googlemaps (I know they don't use Googlemaps but wondering if there could be room for error). I know another mum who put same school down as first choice. She lives in the next street along, so further away... I am interested to find out what school they got, but I only know her to chat to at toddler groups, which obviously aren't happening right now!

OP posts:

MrsRaab · 17/04/2020 20:11

Our council second allocation date is 11/05 and parents then have two weeks to accept/reject

cabbageking · 17/04/2020 20:33

The decision to refuse will be the school was oversubscribed. There is no other reason

Reasons to appeal are limited to
The policy was not legal
An error was made AND it denied you a place ( both parts)
The reason to refuse a place was perverse.

You have to prove the error AND its impact. An error that had no impact is not enough.

Admissions is busy presently but will answer any questions you have in a few weeks.

You can ask how many children in each category were offered a place? These are children above you.
If there was a child accepted on distance which is generally one of the lowest categories, what was their distance from school?
If you think you fall into a category and there are children accepted below this category before you. You need to query which category you are placed in and if you ticked the correct boxes.

The waiting list and appeals are not linked. One has no effect on the other.

admission · 17/04/2020 20:45

The letter that comes from the LA will confirm which school has been allocated. It should then hopefully explain why you did not get the places at your preferred schools. It should say under what admission criteria you were considered (so you can check whether this seems sensible), at what distance you are from the school ( so you can check to see whether this seems reasonable) and what criteria and distance the last place offered was at. That is what you should get ideally as that is basic information that will be needed for any appeal. However some LAs tend to talk in general terms of being at a longer distance etc which frankly is not all that helpful to parents.

Original poster

Marahute · 17/04/2020 21:30

@admission that is really helpful, thank you.

OP posts:

Didiplanthis · 19/04/2020 20:08

MrsRaab - I am currently moving my twins in yr 3 from a 1 form entry school to a 2 form entry so they can be split up it was ok being together for KS1 but I think they need to have their 'own' individual experience of school.

Dottydoodoo · 22/07/2020 13:22

Just to give a bit of an update - we had a phone call this morning to offer us a place at our first choice school which we had been 2nd on the list for. I have never said yes so quickly in all my life!! I cannot believe it we are so happy. It really can happen. I hope everyone else on this thread has had some luck or has some good luck with their school places soon

BendingSpoons · 23/07/2020 18:28

Congratulations @Dottydoodoo that's great news. Glad you heard now before he started at another school, makes it much easier.

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