How to tell her her son is annoying?

[Hoppinggreen]

Ok, slight dramatic title as I would never actually say that
My son is in Y6, there’s a boy in his class (3 form entry so big school) who DS has been vaguely friends with all through school but not especially so, call him B. I know Bs mum quite well, she’s lovely and so is B but he’s quite quirky. She recently spoke to me at a social event and was very upset about how B is being bullied and told me about a few incidents, which were awful and I really felt for both B and her
I spoke to DS about it and asked if he was being nice to B, he said that he didn’t join in the bullying but that him and his friends did run away if B approached. I said that wasn’t very nice and he said that B was really “annoying” and listed some things he did such as coming up behind people and singing in their ears or trying to hug people or squirt water at them.
Nothing major but I can see why the other dc don’t really want to play with him, although obviously bullying isn’t ever justified
Bs mum has asked me if DS can go to his house and if I can encourage DS to play with him, she says she can’t understand why B gets picked on so much
Should I try to gently explain that he annoys the other dc? I actually really like B, he’s very funny and chatty but I suppose I don’t have to put up with him 5 days a week. DS has point blank refused to play with him, but did give him a xmas card when nobody else did and has promised to be kind, although he says that if he speaks to B it might make him think he wants to hang out with him and he doesn’t.

Alexa I Have known both B and his Mum for over 6 years and am very fond of them both. I have no desire to get either of them “off my back”
Did I wander into AIBU by mistake?
Maybe I should I post in there with a poll asking whether my son should jeopardise his hard won friendship group to help a boy he doesn’t much like just because I’m friends with his mum?
My post wasn’t about my son, as I said I am very confident he’s not involved in the bullying - not just because of what he has told me but from other sources too. He’s doing what I expect of him and that’s enough for me

@stilldoesntknowwhatshappening, I dont teachers would be happy to see children contantly coming to see them with that sort of issues. They are more likely to tell the boy to sort it themselves in Y6.
They are all at the point where they will be n secondary in just over 6 months and do need to learn how to stand up on their to feet wo calling the teacher all the time.

(this woud be different in Y3 or 4 or even 5)

I don't think it's kind to teach a child to say "leave me alone" if an unpopular kid is just trying to join in and play. (Obviously, there is a need for children to say "leave me alone" in certain circumstances, but I don't think this is one of them.)

I agree that talking to the teacher would be a good idea, but again, I think it would be better for the OP's DS to do this, rather than the OP herself. I don't think we do our children any favours by wading in and trying to fix their problems for them. In this situation, the OP's DS needs to learn that he has more constructive options than just putting up or running away.

Your son is not a bully op. He is just expressing to you why no one wants to play with poor B.

I would also maybe go and speak to the teacher and be very frank about what b's mum has said to you and the response you have had from your son.

It's not your sons job to make everything ok for a child that is struggling to fit in.

My 8 year old is annoying. Really annoying. He has some friends but not loads and I can completely see why. He's always the one being a little bit too silly, a little bit too loud or screaming or overbearing. It's my job to help him through this and model good behaviour for him to copy. What's the mum like?

It's a long road and I don't really understand why he is like it as my younger son is not like it at all and instinctively knows what to do to fit in. My elder son has noticed as his brother is constantly invited on play dates / parties whereas I have to be much more proactive with the elder one and I'm sure he must find it hurtful. But, primary school is the place to learn these social behaviours and I would probably tell the mum what has been said by your son (as well as tell the teacher). These things stay with us through life and whilst she might not like to hear it now is her opportunity to help him correct the behaviours that are putting others off him. You don't need to be judgmental - it's the teachers job to look out for and help with bullying.

And I should also say that it is NOT DSs friendship group who are bullying B either, it is other children in the year (confirmed by Bs mum and another source) . No matter how much DS might like these boys I wouldn’t want him to hang around with bullies. They are just moving away when B is annoying them and not actively engaging with him outside class .

Running away as a group as soon as he approaches is so harsh, that kind of thing really hurts

Poor kid

Don't, please, tell the mum that her son is annoying

Do keep taking to your son, and help him develop empathy for those who don't fit in. Ask him how he feels if everyone ran away as soon as he walked in their direction

To be honest, the school sounds crap in terms if pastoral care. But that is up to kid B's parents to address

Poor kid

Amaretto what shit teachers wouldn't take a report that a child is continuously hugging and touching children against their wishes seriously?

It's tricky, isn't it?

Your DS sounds like he's doing his best within the structures, maturity and pressures of the Y6 playground. Acknowledges B, helps when he can but likewise doesn't need to have his boundaries invaded. Good on you for supporting him this way.

With B's mum, I'd suggest she speak to the teacher or inclusion worker to help B navigate socially acceptable behavious and cues. His quirks are causing other kids to shun him becasue he doesn't respect their boundaries. Working with him on how to manage these impulses, alongside class PHSE sessions about inclusion and respecting differences might help.

Why dint it Ok for DS to say 'Go away' when the boundaries of other children are being disrespected. That's exactly what the children should be taught.

Im alwys confused at how people seem to expect CHILDREN to act in more mature ways than most ADULTS can (and likely in asy that THEY couldnt acheive themselves)

I get what you're saying Amaretto, but how can we expect adults to have good empathy and interpersonal skills if we don't encourage them to develop these qualities as children? Surely, this is how they learn?

They run or move away when B starts to sing loudly, grab them, do funny dances or other things they find “annoying”. They are happy for B to join in if they are playing football etc as when engaged like that he is fine. They don’t spot him approaching across the playground and leg it!
As I said , this thread wasn’t intended about how my 10 year old can help B - unfortunately he isn’t the paragon of maturity and empathy that some people’s children seem to be. He’s pretty good but it’s not up to him to fix this, it’s not up to me either really, I just wondered if I could help somehow as I’m very fond of B and his whole family and I can clearly see how his behaviour can alienate some children, whereas often if you are a parent it’s not as easy to. There is NO excuse for bullying, no matter how quirky B and it would be a real shame if he had to Ange who he was to fit in but he really does need a bit more awareness before September when he arrives at the very large local company, which has quite a mix of kids that might do far worse than move away when he comes up to them and sings loudly in their ear!

And DS has never said “go away” to B, I’ve never said he did

Your ds is not a bloody bully.. not wanting to be screeched at, hugged or squirted with water is normal.. and so is the reaction of moving away from the person doing it.

I wonder how many of us would sit at lunch with a colleague who annoyed us.

I’m not sure how to broach it with the mum, I don’t think I’d say he’s annoying but maybe there’s a gentler way to mention it.. they won’t stop running away from him if he’s actively bugging them so simply ignoring it won’t help either. But I still don’t see why your ds should give up friends he likes to sit with the boy who flings water at him.

Surely squirting people with water after being asked to stop falls into bullying too..

Sorry. CHANGE who he is to fit in I meant

All you can do is encourage B's mum to bring it up with the school and get B support so he's more socially aware.

You're right, your son is not a bully and it isn't a ten year olds responsibility to educate all the world's children on bullying.

I was thinking that.

B is bullying as well. I would encourage your son to tell the teacher. They do need to be monitoring this.

I would suggest the mum go in to speak to the teacher/senco. Sounds like the boy could do with some social skills support.

I think it's fair enough to move away or say "leave me alone" when he is physically grabbing the other kids or trying to hug them or whatever. The singing/weird dancing? Maybe they could be a bit more tolerant.

My dd is certainly no paragon of virtue, but we have taught her to be kind, and hopefully, she tries to adhere to this as much as possible. I tend to see all of these situations as opportunities for her to learn and develop her interpersonal and problem solving skills as these will stand her in good stead for the future. However, I get that you're not looking for suggestions as to how your son can address this issue for himself, so if you're really worried about this boy, perhaps your best option would be to have a chat with the class teacher. I know that teachers are really busy, but I think any half-way decent teacher would want to try and address a situation in which one of his/her pupils is being persistently excluded and/or bullied. And the teacher will not take your comments about the boy personally, whereas the mother might.

don't think it's kind to teach a child to say "leave me alone" if an unpopular kid is just trying to join in and play.

So how would you word it then?

I have told a mum I know quite well (not a friend, just a school/footie mum) similar about her son when she's asked, but I knew her well enough to know she knows ALL children are not perfect, they are all learning, would not take offence and would appreciate the feedback so she could try to resolve the problem.

I would start the conversation with - I know you've been concerned about B and it's been on my mind, so I had a chat with ds to see if I could find anything to help you and it seems the other kids don't dislike him its just he doing somethings they don't like and doesn't stop when asked. With them being so immature still they then don't know how to handle it so are just avoiding him when he does it. Then give her some examples.

Only you will have an idea if she is likely to take offence. I have appreciated feedback when given with good intentions.

If she asks about your ds befriending him again, as someone said up thread, just say you don't interfere in his friendships.

This friendship group your ds has worked hard on being a part of doesn't sound very nice.
Wouldn't it be nice if one of this group could set and example and try to be a bit more tolerant of B.
If this group then shun the nice guy it really shows them up for what they are.
Running away really is awful behaviour.
I feel for B. The poor kid sending them all Christmas cards

I don't think your son is a bully. I wouldn't want someone hugging me or spraying me with water either. He has a right to say he doesn't want that.

I would encourage his mum to go to the school. They need to support him. I can't believe people are suggesting a 10 year old should take this on purely on the basis that you are friends with his mum. I would emphasise to the mum that they start secondary soon. He will need to stand on his own two feet. Best to get some help now.

Different. But in reception my ds was one of 'xxx group of friends' for a boy who was really struggling. But xxx was a lovely kid. He just struggled making friends. He was later found to be on the spectrum. But I wouldn't have agreed to it if he had hugged my ds snd sprayed him with water etc.

I don't think your son has bullied him. Just tell the mum you don't want to force your son's friendships and he finds B a bit full on. If she asks why I would explain the things your son mentioned.

If she gets annoyed that's her problem, you're just giving her a valuable insight into what the kids think and why her son is being excluded, not what you personally think. She could use the information to educate her son on personal boundaries.

To be fair to B on the water squirting thing it’s something a lot of the boys do . They do it when the leave school and walk down to the carpark, usually in their little groups but poor B just seems to get it wrong somehow. For example, a group will be running around and squirting each other from a distance and laughing then B will just come up to one of the boys (who he isn’t especially friendly) with and empty an entire water bottle on his head - I saw this in the carpark the other day. They will usually then react badly . B is trying to join in but going over the top, so a bit of jostling will mean B coming running out if nowhere and jumping on someone knocking them to the ground ( I’ve seen this too).
This is why even the children not involved in bullying B avoid him. The active bullying is almost a separate issue and I understand that school IS addressing that.

don't think it's kind to teach a child to say "leave me alone" if an unpopular kid is just trying to join in and play.

Please don't do that.
No, I don't like it when you do that.
Can you stop doing x, let's do y instead?

Surely there are lots of other ways of asserting yourself without resorting to a blank "leave me alone". If B is lacking in self awareness, he may not even realise what he's doing to annoy people. "Leave me alone" or "go away" doesn't help him with this, but simply lets him know that others don't want to be around him. A more specific statement would at least make him aware of the behaviours that others find annoying.

However, I don't get the impression that the OP's DS has been telling the child to leave him alone in any case - just moving away when he approaches.