How to tell her her son is annoying?

[Hoppinggreen]

Ok, slight dramatic title as I would never actually say that
My son is in Y6, there’s a boy in his class (3 form entry so big school) who DS has been vaguely friends with all through school but not especially so, call him B. I know Bs mum quite well, she’s lovely and so is B but he’s quite quirky. She recently spoke to me at a social event and was very upset about how B is being bullied and told me about a few incidents, which were awful and I really felt for both B and her
I spoke to DS about it and asked if he was being nice to B, he said that he didn’t join in the bullying but that him and his friends did run away if B approached. I said that wasn’t very nice and he said that B was really “annoying” and listed some things he did such as coming up behind people and singing in their ears or trying to hug people or squirt water at them.
Nothing major but I can see why the other dc don’t really want to play with him, although obviously bullying isn’t ever justified
Bs mum has asked me if DS can go to his house and if I can encourage DS to play with him, she says she can’t understand why B gets picked on so much
Should I try to gently explain that he annoys the other dc? I actually really like B, he’s very funny and chatty but I suppose I don’t have to put up with him 5 days a week. DS has point blank refused to play with him, but did give him a xmas card when nobody else did and has promised to be kind, although he says that if he speaks to B it might make him think he wants to hang out with him and he doesn’t.

Some good advice on this thread (and not so)

I would very much work with your son to help him learn how to say to the other boy when he does the annoying behavior to please not do that (eg. Boy sings in ear - your son says "hey don't do that - it's not nice and makes me feel xyz- can you not do that again please ? ) Helping children communicate at this age is the best skill you can teach them

He’s not running away with the whole class, I didn’t say that
If B comes up to them at playtime and starts his “annoying” behaviour has friendship group runs or moves away and DS goes with them.
Lady he does ask B not to do it but he just laughs and continues
As I’ve said I have no concerns that DS is bullying B. For reasons I don’t want to go into I am hyper aware of bullying and if I thought he was I would deal with him very strongly.
This thread isn’t about my son. There are over 90 children in the year and 32 in their class alone, I don’t think it’s DS’s responsibility to sort this out. As long as he is being kind and friendly that’s all I expect of him.
Thank you to ten people who have given me advice on the question I actually asked.

Apologies for typos

Bit of a drip feed there op.

You said “ him and his friends did run away if B approached”

Sounds much more like he tries to play and they leg it!

B sounds like he has mild developmental delay (immaturity?) or autism (doesn't understand other people's reactions?) or some other neuro diversity. I wouldn't tell B's mother her child is annoying because most 10 year old kids aren't annoying to other 10 year olds unless they're at least a little unique.

At the same time unless you know the mum quite well suggesting autism or developmental delay is not a good idea.

I don't think your son is bullying B (though people who rip cards up in front of him are) but you could make your DS do one playdate with him since your DS is 10 and has nothing better to do, it sounds like B needs support from the school on social skills.

As long as he is being kind and friendly that’s all I expect of him

I agree your son isn’t responsible for this boys choices

I don't think it sounds like you're DS is bullying at all. It is good you've had a conversation with your son about it. And he had agreed to be kind to the boy (continue being kind).
In my opinion, the mother should be speaking to the school directly about issues her son is facing. I understand why she would like your DS to take hers under his wing a bit, but it isn't something you can force on your young son. It is tricky, but you can't expect your kid to take on this responsibility, unless it happens organically, he had his own friends.

I mention the Christmas card thing because several children in the class threw the card away that B gave them in front of him

That's absolutely vile behaviour, do school know about it?

Thing is when a child like B is 'othered' constantly, it tends to be out of sight of the teachers and they are unaware.

You've said B's 'quirky', can relate better to older kids/adults. His behavior toward his peers is socially inappropriate in a big way including sensory-seeking (the screaming and hugs) he's being treated unkindly by them en-masse (understatement) and his mother thinks he'll be 'eaten alive' at secondary so she's aware he's different.
You've not mentioned his academic achievement, if he's average or above, school won't have noticed.

At the very least, his mother ought to be meeting the school staff and asking them to observe her son not just in the classroom but during unstructured times. There are a few red flags for neurodiversity in the descriptions you've given.

X post Purpledragon40

Aren’t all ten years olds annoying? Maybe it would be beneficial if your DS/other children in general started telling to stop doing the things that irritated them instead of just running away? It may be a suggestion to pass on to your son.

Running away when he approaches is not kind behaviour. It's understandable that he doesn't want to put up with the annoying quirks, but he needs to find a better way of dealing with the problem.

My dd was in a similar situation with a girl at school when she was in year 7. The girl in question was not an unkind person but she had a number of behaviours that the other children found incredibly annoying. Most of dd's friends just wanted to avoid/exclude her. DD was concerned about this because she knew it was unkind. However, she found it very stressful being around this other child, and she was also increasingly under pressure from her other friends to stop asking them to include the girl.

In the end, dd decided to talk to the girl directly about the behaviours which she and her peers found difficult e.g. excessive boasting, whining when she didn't get her own way, describing other people's beliefs/customs as "weird", tuning out of conversations and then getting in a strop because people wouldn't fill her in on the bits that she had missed. She had a very open and honest but sensitive conversation about the fact that she wanted to be friends with the girl and recognised her many good qualities but really struggled with some of the behaviours. The girl cried and said that she didn't realise she was doing these things. Eventually they came up with a code word that dd could use to make her aware of when she was doing it. There wasn't a dramatic improvement overnight, and several years later, dd still finds the girl annoying at times. However, she did take dd's feedback on board, checked herself when dd used the code word, and over time, she gradually became more self aware. This also helped her to develop other friendships.

It wasn't easy for dd to have that conversation, and it would have been a whole lot easier for her to have walked away, but actually, addressing the problem kindly was probably good for dd's own self-esteem as she learned that she could be assertive about her own feelings without being mean to anyone. About a year after she had the conversation, she received a really lovely card from the girl in question, telling dd how grateful she was for her honesty and her patience. The girl had been aware that other kids disliked her, but it seems that she hadn't really understood why.

I don't think it would be an awful idea to talk to the mother about what's going wrong for her son, because ultimately, he needs to know. Be prepared for the fact that she may be very defensive though. If your son can talk directly to the boy in question, I suspect that that would be much, much better - if he is able to do it kindly and sensitively, of course.

Bonny they do tell him, he just laughs apparently and keeps doing it until they move away

Hold on how the fuck is the ds a bully? Ok he shouldn't run away from B but kids will be kids.

No one wants singing in their ear or to be squirted with water.

Have they asked him to stop??

If DS doesn't want to play with him he shouldn't have to?

And this is not my sons responsibility
There are another 88 children in that year, he’s only involved because I’m his mum. I won’t interfere in his friendships beyond making sure he is at least kind to everyone and not involved in bullying.

Poor B, so sad for him and his mum but he does sound very annoying! A parent in a similar situation, in terms of little boy being thought of as annoying, came into class and talked to the class about the reasons why and so on and for a while it worked and they all were more understanding ... but it constantly needed reinforcing and I would say this is where the playtime supervisors should be helping ensure it's a safe and happy environment for all and using strategies to help social integration.

However, you cant force children to be friends out of school however nice the mum is but you can talk to your DS about empathy and what being a man is strength and kindness.

Be thankful you are not B's mum!

Adults tend to avoid people with annoying behaviour so I don't get why we expect better from kids.

The thing is, if he runs away with the others when the boy approaches, he is involved in bullying.

It isn't your son's responsibility, of course, but don't you want to teach him to do the right thing?

Or do you just want this other mum and her kid to get off your son's back?

Why is the right thing expecting a child to educate another on how not to disrespect others boundaries. That is a lot of responsibility for little shoulders.

By Year 6, the class ought to have had some sort of PSHE lesson time addressing inclusivity and be able to accommodate the more 'quirky' classmates. The behaviour sounds a bit immature both on B's part and his classmates.

Why is the right thing expecting a child to educate another on how not to disrespect others boundaries. That is a lot of responsibility for little shoulders.

Because the alternative is either to put up with the annoying behaviour or participate in the unkind exclusion of another child? It isn't really about educating the other child, it's about learning to express his own feelings in a kind but honest way.

No. The alternative is to tell a teacher and to teach her son to say leave me alone.

@AlexaShutUp, your dd has shown more maturity and relationhsip skills than most ADULTS have (you just have to see threads on here). So in that way she IS exceptional.

Im alwys at how people seem to expect CHILDREN to act in more mature ways than most ADULTS can (and likely in asy that THEY couldnt acheive themselves)

I agree that your DS doesn’t have to take responsibility for B simply because you’re friends with B’s mum. I’m sure you’ll continue to encourage your DS to continue to show kindness and tolerance, and discourage meanness from the others in his friendship group.

I would respond to B’s mum and explain that unfortunately your DS is not keen on having a playdate with B at the moment, and as he is 10 years old you feel he is too old to force into things like playdates – he has to make his own friendship choices. You could also tell B’s mum that you’ve had a chat with your DS about being kind to everyone, and will continue to reinforce this message. I would then suggest that she works with the school on the bullying and friendship issues as they are happening in school.

I wouldn’t volunteer any information about any of B’s specific annoying behaviours unless B’s mum really tries to discuss B at this level of detail, in which case you perhaps might be able to say that your DS did mention that B is very tactile and your DS would prefer not to be hugged by him?