Massively first world problem but need your thoughts

[CFeatherstone]

Hi. I’m completely torn up and stressing myself out over a big decision. I also feel totally ridiculous for being this stressed out about it when most people don’t even have this luxury choice

I live in the catchment area (probably!) for a vg state primary. It’s not guaranteed but it’s looking probs 75% likely. It’s ‘outstanding’ and has a great reputation locally, and all my neighbours send their kids there. It’ll be Nov 2020 when we have to apply for it.

At the moment DD is at the nursery part of a v v posh and expensive prep school. She absolutely loves it, and I do as well. We are seriously considering it as an option instead of the state primary. However, it’s just such a ginormous expense, and I’m not sure it’s the right decision. We could use the money for a much nicer house, with a garden and space for friends and family to stay, which would enrich DCs life in other ways.

Education means everything to my family. It’s our number 1 priority. If I could guarantee this private school would be substantially better than the state primary I would totally just pay up and be happy with the decision. But I am just not sure how much of a difference it will make to her and DS in the long run when there’s a good free option round the corner. I can be flexible on working hours ie work full time and send DCs to private, or part time and send them locally. I was privately educated - amazing, sweet little prep school which was the making of me, and then big all girls boarding school which I absolutely hated. I really want to get this decision right because both my schools had such a big impact on my life and personality. I know either option is not a guarantee and I’m so worried I’ll regret my choice in future.

A lot of my privately educated friends are sending their kids to state school because even in decent high earning jobs they can’t afford the fees. The only reason I can afford it is because my parents passed away and I can use my inheritance to pay for the fees. We’re definitely not in the same income bracket as most people who send their kids there.

I also worry about the politics. DH and I both hate the current polarised system and how unfair it is, so we’d feel a bit hypocritical choosing an elite private school when in an ideal world we believe everyone should have equal opportunities in education. The problem is there’s this totally amazing option (or so it seems) for my kids and it’s just staring at me, and I feel in my gut it would be wrong deny them this opportunity when I could afford make that choice.

Also - I feel the tides are changing slightly - in 20 years time will they be at a social disadvantage having gone to private schools??

So sorry for the essay but to anyone who has got this far...what would you do??

Oh and our local primary is outstanding and dominated by parents that could easily afford private. It is a truly spectacular school and i was very happy with it as was my child

BUT

The opportunities at his prep are jaw dropping. His swimming has rocketed; his french (once a week at state, 3x a week at prep) has leaped forward; the food is superb and portions generous given all the activity they do (important to him!); the after school care so much better for working parent (and included!); the science lab and experiential they do is mind boggling, but it has capture my child’s imagination in a subject previously not interested in.

I could go on and on.

I think those of us who were educated privately (and in particular at top independents) will know that negative judging does go on unfortunately.

Aside the fact that it's a completely personal decision, here are my comments for the mix:

You can apply for the state primary and decide when you get the offer. If you get a place (and accept it) and have to end up paying a term's fees for the private school, that's cheaper than paying throughout. If you don't get the state school you want you've still got a place.

But will the private be over-subscribed ie can you put off the decision? The birth rate is dropping so schools which were bursting to the seams when mine were younger now have spaces.

Until you actually turn up in a class in a school you have no use really how it will suit your child. One of mine had a good time in the local school until some of the children changed and the class dynamic and teacher were awful that year. Another has had time in a great private school which really gets the best from her but feels she has no friends (nothing to do with the school, just teenage girls) so is very unhappy and will move.

Realistically can you try one if the schools and move after a bit (whether state to private or vice versus) if you decide to?

@SJane48S

I was privately educated 3-16 and then state grammar

I'm a "top 5%" earner but in an expensive part of the country. My children went to a wonderful state primary where they were nurtured and cared for and where they flourished. They then went on to a selective state secondary where they did academically fantastically and were absolutely supported and encouraged beyond anything I can remember when I was at school. (I was state educated, my husband was privately educated). Our decisions have meant we can send them on school trips and we can have a good work-life balance. Good state schools are amazing.

My friend miserably states that she has "wasted" more than £150,000 on sending her two children to private schools where they have just about scraped 5 GCSEs with appalling teaching from teachers not qualified to teach those subjects. Both moved on to state schools for sixth form where they did much better. Neither of their GCSE results appeared in the school statistics. Both of them went to "all-through" schools where their friendship groups were limited and, all in all, they've had a very negative experience.
I know that is just one school but I know lots of people who gave sent their children privately and can never see any advantage over my children's education at all.

If you have enough in SIPPs, pension and savings after spending the inheritance on school fees and uni then I would consider it.
Look after yourselves too.
Old age care can be expensive.

@user1477391263 I agree re home Ed. That would be our alternative to private education if something happened and we could no longer afford it.

@spacepyramid I didn’t realise. I’ve never met someone who didn’t go to public school who could hold a wine glass properly. I guess it’s really rare but still possible in state schools.

@velveteenfruitbowl if somehow you believe the above is coming across as anything resembling witty you are completely mistaken.

I remember a friend of my mothers ( an Italian Countess from a very well known family that includes various Popes - not that this matters) telling me off for a rather snobbish comment I’d made. She told me that ‘only very common people remark on other people being common’.

As an adult I would completely concur with her on this. It certainly bears no resemblance to any of the ‘good manners’ you are trumpeting that your DC have picked up in their private education and are so sadly lacking in the State sector.

And to be repellently snobbish in return, it really does come across as very nouveau dear!

I went state primary and private secondary and do strongly believe I would be a different person today if I'd have gone state secondary. I would love to be able to do the same for my DS. We live in a naice area and the village primary is just fantastic but I do worry about what we will do for secondary.

* ( an Italian Countess from a very well known family that includes various Popes - not that this matters) telling me off for*

Popes are never from the same family, what are you on about?

Popes are selected by the church

Clearly history wasn't your forte @Lovemenorca

😂

My bad!

Why on earth you thought it was worth mentioning though is beyond me?

Check you know what you are talking from a factual position before making a statement, particularly if you are implying that someone else doesn’t know what they are talking about. Numerous noble Italian families had members who became Pope, quite a few of them more than one.

As above, not that it mattered who she was and I’d agree snobbish of me to state it at all. I think it’s quite clear that Velveteenfruitbowl’s comments got completely up my nose. While she might have planned to come across as tongue in cheek it read very very badly. My response I’d agree could have been better and more polite!

Having sent dc to a good - not posh like the one you're describing - state primary with a very mixed intake and then moved to private at 7-plus, I saw a vast difference. The private was a million times better, but I'm very glad we had the few years at the state primary not least because dc and I made some lifelong friends in our immediate neighbourhood, the private school - where I've also made amazing friends - catchment is vast.

Also, the private was selective and I do believe that with private education a lot of what you pay for is a similar high-achieving, stimulating peer group. DC were bored in their previous school as a lot of work was done at the slowest learner's pace - they were on different tables for maths and literacy but they still didn't move fast. The private school also offered far better music and sport but, like another poster, my kids are neither musical nor sporty so this wasn't an issue - if your dc are it could be a game changer.

If the private school you're looking at isn't selective I personally wouldn't bother, the naice primary will be full of bright kids and pushy parents making sure standards are high and there will be a lot of setting and competition. As for the bit about better manners, don't make me laugh! But ultimately you have to go on gut.

* and I’d agree snobbish of me to state it at all.*

Snobbish. Also, weird. As lacked any kind of relevance whatsoever

Good heavens, Velveteenfruit bowl "A good private school will provide a good academic education, a nice environment, a good cultural education, good manners (including teaching children how to dress and speak well), good soft skills and, a good network." That's exactly what my children's state school did. Astonishing that it's possible ...

I feel sorry for people like Velveteen because they are the kind of people who get ripped off by poor quality private schools, because they are so convinced that any school charging money MUST be better that they are easy prey for marketing people.

I don't recognize the world she is describing at all, and I know a lot of people from state and private schools, including at Cambridge where I went (from a state school). I went to a mixture of state and private schools, as has my own child. There are good and bad schools in both categories. There is also an element of swings and roundabouts. Paying for education and trailing off to a distant school means less time, money and energy for things like private tuition or working on things at home or enjoying educational days out and trips which also broaden children's experiences.

DD went to local primary that went from outstanding to failing and back again in her 7 years there.

It was a lovely happy environment with lots of friendships and opportunities but educationally I thought it was only okay. Absolutely no slight on the teachers, they did their best with the resources and support available.

She's now at a private secondary and initially at an educational disadvantage to her prep school peers. But she's catching up fast and I'm not worried.

I am fiercely education focussed but I'm so glad she went to her local school, made great friends (as did we), was happy and now realises how lucky she is to get so many extra opportunities.

It really all depends on the individual schools in the end, with the caveat that I’d advise thinking very carefully about your finances, and whether you could afford private all the way through before choosing private schools. Bear in mind that private schools often have annual above inflation fee rises.

My DC started at a private primary school. We switched to a state school after the private school told us to find another school for DS1 (mainly because he has ASD and they couldn’t / wouldn’t support that, partly because they said he wouldn’t get good GCSEs).

Academically speaking, the state primary school my DC are now at is pushing them harder than the private primary school was - with DS1 in particular, there was a noticeable increase in his academic performance within the first term of the new school.

The main differences I’ve noticed, other than lower costs for uniforms / school trips etc have been the extras:

• better sports facilities at the private school
• more after school clubs at the private school
• private school wrap around care had longer hours (although they charged extra for that, and our state school’s wrap around care is free)
• more performances at the private school (plays, assemblies for parents etc).

@Lovemenorca - thanks for that! I used it purely to illustrate that if Velveteen was as well bred as she obviously aspires to be with her 'State pupils not knowing how to hold red wine glasses' comments, then she would know that it's considered really crass to assess people on this basis. And it was a genuine incident too - I remember feeling really embarrassed & small afterwards. But it was elitist of me to use it, particularly as I was remarking on the snobbery of someone else. I've said since that I regretted it because basically once you've said something you're aware was a bit wrong you hold your hands up to it. Or at least I do.

As for you, you started off by calling me ignorant then when it was plain you had absolutely no idea at all what you were talking about it you switched to 'weird'. That really says rather a lot about you!

For me, it also depends on your child. is she loud, confident and unlikely to need extra support? go state, she will be fine
Is she quiet, not very confident and likely to need support? private - state schools do not have the ressources for these kids. Its not because the teachers don’t want to, its because 30 kids and 1 adult means there is not time.
and yes, i‘m speaking from experience

(for private: you want a caring, well performing school, not an exam mill!)