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Primary education

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Original poster

Detentions at primary school

101 replies

MiraCurtis · 15/05/2019 19:42

Good evening All, My 10 years old DD suffered detention today for allegedly scratching another girl, although she swears it was an accident. Her punishment? Spending her lunch break sitting on a carpet facing the wall in the main access corridor outside the headteachers office in full view of anyone passing by. Can anyone please enlighten me on the use of this type of punishment? (irrespective of the level of misbehaviour) Is it common practice in primary schools as I was completely outraged by the use of such a humiliating method of punishing a young child.

OP posts:
thirdfiddle · 17/05/2019 15:46

Sitting on the floor in a corridor sounds inappropriate generally. You'd get told off for sitting on the floor in a corridor at most schools. You're in the way and someone might trip over you.
Sitting facing a wall would be against the behaviour policy at our primary. They're given something to do.
If they don't actually have a behaviour policy you can check, this school has some problems wider than this particular incident.

AssangesCat · 17/05/2019 15:47

It does not sound like a constructive means of managing behavior at all. I wonder are they are a "rights respecting school", there may not be a human right to not sit on the floor facing a wall, but under the UN Convention on Children's Rights, children have a right to an education that includes being treated with dignity. It is quite difficult to reconcile deliberate humiliation with treating children with dignity. Enforce consequences by all means but they should be constructive.

Nofunkingworriesmate · 17/05/2019 16:16

But adults do have power and control over children? We control every aspect of their lives eating sleeping etc and teachers control every aspect of their day
Maybe you need to examine why YOU have an issue with power control humiliation when your daughter doesn’t

FrLukeDuke · 17/05/2019 17:21

It is quite difficult to reconcile deliberate humiliation with treating children with dignity. Enforce consequences by all means but they should be constructive

Agreed. I'm surprised people on the thread are in favour of punishments being humiliating, but perhaps they punish their own children by deliberately humiliating them too?
A child might be a little embarrassed when told off but that can't be helped as telling kids off sometimes is necessary. I wouldn't deliberately devise a punishment to be humiliating though, but perhaps others do.

FrLukeDuke · 17/05/2019 17:23

And I'm not against school punishments such as detention/isolation/exclusion when deserved

PCohle · 17/05/2019 17:28

How do posters know that the punishment is "deliberately humiliating" though?

Discussing the incident with the headteacher and giving the child time, whilst sitting quietly outside the office, to reflect on their behaviour may perfectly well be the intention behind the punishment.

FrLukeDuke · 17/05/2019 17:28

The above aren't done in a deliberately humiliating way though

FrLukeDuke · 17/05/2019 17:29

Because it's in the corridor with people walking past. Ie. Public punishment, unlike how detentions etc are carried out at my children's high school

PCohle · 17/05/2019 17:31

The fact that the punishment is somewhat public doesn't mean that the intention behind it is humiliation though. Kids tend to know when other children are punished, that's the nature of schools.

FrLukeDuke · 17/05/2019 17:32

Yes but they aren't on display to passers by at my children's school when punished (fortunately)

PCohle · 17/05/2019 17:36

I'm not sure why what happens at your children's school is the final arbiter of what constitutes deliberate humiliation?

We have no idea what the school's motivation for having kids sit in the corridor is.

FrLukeDuke · 17/05/2019 17:48

It doesn't matter what the school's motivation is. It matters whether people agree embarrassing, public punishments which this was are ok or not. You clearly think they are. I don't

Greggers2017 · 17/05/2019 17:59

You called the NSPCC over that? Really? What an completely ridiculous waste of time and resources. You do realise there are people out there with serious issues trying to get through who can't but yet we have time wasters like you calling. You're as bad as people who call an ambulance for small reasons. Completely selfish behaviour.

How about focusing your time on teaching your child not to hurt others and not that
Mummy will fight her corner when she shows bad behaviour. Your daughter is old
Enough to take responsibility for her actions.
And if you aren't happy speak to the school staff and follow their complaints procedure.

PCohle · 17/05/2019 18:04

But you have referred repeatedly to the punishment being deliberately humiliating.

eg. "I'm surprised people on the thread are in favour of punishments being humiliating, but perhaps they punish their own children by deliberately humiliating them too? ... I wouldn't deliberately devise a punishment to be humiliating though, but perhaps others do."

"The above aren't done in a deliberately humiliating way though"

What do you think deliberately means if it doesn't refer to the school's motivations/intentions/purpose, and why do you keep bringing it up if it's not important?

Of course the school's intentions are important. They can't control how every individual child will react emotionally to punishments, but they can reflect on their own motivations and intentions.

thirdfiddle · 17/05/2019 18:23

Anyone applying a moment's thought can see that making someone sit on the floor in a public place is going to be humiliating for them. Either they were stupidly thoughtless or it was intended.

spanieleyes · 17/05/2019 19:21

I would agree it's not an appropriate punishment.
But nor is it NSPCC/Court of Human rights level either!

wanderings · 17/05/2019 19:28

Here are some slightly creative ways of humiliating children I remember from primary from the 1980s:

  • Some naughty boys who were laughing being made to laugh in a mirror.
  • A pushchair being wheeled out, and two boys who were "behaving like babies" being offered the chance to sit in it.
  • When more than half the class wrote "kitten" in their books, the teacher did a Trunchbullesque march round the classroom, tossing the pupils' exercise books on the floor. They were then ordered to stand at the front of the class and hold them up. Their crime? They had written "kitten" without being told.

Should I be up in arms about these, out of interest?

thirdfiddle · 17/05/2019 19:45

Sounds risky wanderings. My DC's class would LOVE to get to sit in a giant pushchair or to mess about with a mirror. When I started school in the early 80s kids were still being sent to the head and given the slipper. A child in my class was slapped about and shouted at repeatedly for about 15 minutes and teacher was still in her job the next day and year. If you're going to be up in arms about discipline in the 80s I'd deal with the violence first, the out and out shouted abuse second and you probably won't have energy left for the merely humiliating and inappropriate but feel free if you CBA.

Redpostbox · 17/05/2019 21:07

I feel so sorry for teachers now adays. How are they meant to keep order in classes if they are constantly undermined by parents. It's no wonder there is a teacher recruitment crisis.

SparklesandFlowers · 17/05/2019 21:23

Sitting on the floor I don't have a problem with per se. We have children sometimes sitting on the floor outside the office if the chairs are taken or if they decide to wait for the head (not necessarily for punishment) further down the corridor and sit themselves near his door.

I have a problem with facing the wall, however. I just wouldn't get a child to face a wall for punishment, sitting or standing.

But sitting on the floor on its own? I think that's fine. (My school has a "proper" detention system whereby children are in a room on chairs doing a task with an adult which is more effective than just sitting and reflecting, though.)

thirdfiddle · 17/05/2019 22:15

How are they meant to keep order
By following the behaviour policy which the school should have with clearly set out sanctions and escalations. Not improvising.

Kingslayer · 17/05/2019 22:36

If my daughter was caught brawling with another child, sitting on the floor looking at the wall would be the least of her worries!!!

Ionacat · 18/05/2019 09:01

I suspect what happened was whoever was dealing with the incident decided to keep them in at lunch, but didn’t want them together but there was a limited amount of staff available. Therefore went child A you sit there and as they needed a cup of tea, toilet etc. asked your DD sit outside in the corridor knowing that plenty of staff would be coming past keeping an eye so she wouldn’t have been unsupervised.
A better response might have been a note saying I appreciate my DD was involved in a scuffle and deserved to be kept in, but she was very upset by the public humliation of being sat on the floor whilst everyone walked by and although I hope she will have no need to be kept in again, I would rather she was sat somewhere else so she is not punished so publically. Unfortunately by going in all guns blazing, you lose the high ground.

You will get a shock at secondary level, if this makes you ring the NSPCC. I’ve taught secondary and our school did not have an isolation room, but middle managers had a desk in the corner of their room for people removed from lessons. Mine due to benches and computers round the walls was right at the front facing the wall. When I’ve had people on detention at lunch and desperately needed to go to the staffroom for tea and the toilet, I’ve had no choice but to take them with me (different block) and make them stand outside whilst I’ve been 5 minutes, as there was no time to try and find other members of staff so I could go to the toilet, by the time you’ve checked classrooms and department offices with a short lunch break, lunch woud be gone. So although humiliation is the last thing on my mind, it happens in my case due to the layout of my room and the school.

In reality, if you don’t like the behaviour policy, then you’ll need to take your DD elsewhere as you signed up to it by sending your DD to that school but perhaps take from this that ringing the NSPCC over a detention and going in all guns blazing isn’t the way to deal with schools. (Same way that any parent who comes in shouting I’m going to phone Ofsted doesn’t get anywhere either, we usually say that’s fine please do.) The parents that get taken seriously are the ones that ring/write ask for our verson first and then politely but firmly if necessary put their case across in either a meeting or a phone call and you know what if we have got it wrong and teachers are human and make mistakes, we do apologise and try to put it right.

Hoppinggreen · 18/05/2019 09:30

So rather than make an appointment to see The Head and calmly discuss what happened you called the NSPCC and are now ranting about abuse of power and infringement of human rights
This is why some children grow up to be absolute nightmares.
Maybe your child was in the wrong or maybe not but why don’t you actually go and find out the truth instead of causing all this drama
Change schools OP, they will probably be glad to see the back of you

Jellycat1 · 18/05/2019 10:07
  • @PCohle Ok. Lets imagine your mum is at nursering home and one day you find her sitting on the floor in the corridor facing the wall for an hour.. I doubt you will say thats ok.. so why when the same is done with a child you think thats acceptable?*

That's such an odd comparison - and quite disturbing. Nobody has the right to 'discipline' an elderly person - other than the the judicial system if they're guilty of a crime!

I'd say you should stop being indignant and focus your concern in the right place - I.e. nipping your daughters aggression in the bud before she goes to senior school.