Tiny school or large school?

[IsThisYourSanderling]

I'm trying to make a decision about whee to send my DS for school. He's only 2.5 but applying for nursery now, which is attached to one of the schools, which is why I'm thinking about it now.

Large school has 220 pupils, 30 ish per class and growing. Doesn't differentiate by ability within classes. Is a short walk from my house, across a lovely park.

Tiny school has only 33 pupils, divided into two mixed-age classrooms. Children a given work according to ability, as there's no need to keep groups of children at the same level, the numbers being so small. It's a 12 minutes drive away, no traffic. Very rural.

DS himself is very shy with other adults and kids, a little socially delayed, behind with gross motor stuff, but advanced academically. I feel like he might get lost in a big class, and hide his light under a bushel a bit. But is the small school too small?

Anyone have any thoughts? Are there major drawbacks to very small schools? I went to a lovely small village school myself, but it had seventy kids, not thirty.

I would be worried about the transition to secondary if you went with the small school. The last secondary school I taught in had over 1500 students, 276 in Yr7 alone. It's hard enough for kids that come from normal primary schools of 200-300 to adjust, let alone from a school with only 30. I would look into the sizes of secondary's around you, but it's likely the only 'small' secondary's are private.

Assuming you are in England then nursery place has no bearing on Reception place (ie nursery children don’t get priority entrance to the school) so just choose the nursery you like for now and then review it again for Reception?

My kids have been at a small (65 in total) infants and mid size (400) primary. I’d take the bigger one every time - more resources, wider friendship group, more varied extra curricular activities etc. Also being able to walk to school is a massive benefit (we have no school in walking distance sadly - the drive and parking soon gets very tedious!)

The only note of caution re larger school in your case is the comment about not differentiating - every school should do this, it’s a fundamental of good quality teaching and I’d be very concerned about this - so I would def be finding out more before making a final choice re Reception (less critical for nursery)

Op not in England - in Scotland.

I’m also surprised that a school would say they don’t differentiate. I can’t see how a teacher couldn’t differentiate - school of 33 will have a full range of abilities in the different year groups and a class of 30 can have a full range of abilities too. In ds1’s reception class for example (30 dc) they had reading range from pre-reading to about 11/12 years.

Maybe they don’t set formally (with circle/triangle/square table for math for example, or more extreme split of separate maths or English teaching with sets of balanced numbers). My kids’ primary did away with setting that they used to do across the cohort - where orviusly for maths and literacy the children were split into two 30 classes by ability. Did away with it because in a class of 30 you will setill have potentially a huge range of ability and it’s been proven that setting at primary of this ilk just doesn’t work terribly well for any pupils, regardless of ability. Focussed instead on targeted differentiation in class and emplying extra teacher to do small group work across the school.

School of 33 = 4 or 5 per year group on average (even if taught in larger groups). Seems rather limiting to making many friends, sports teams etc and nowhere to hide when you fall out with your friends!

I have a friend who teaches in a very small school. She doesn't recommend it!

Thanks all.

About differentiating - I'm going to email the school and see what they say what they're official approach is to this. What my friends have said is far from encouraging - that children are not given work to match their ability, that they're made to repeat/reinforce the same things long after they've mastered it, that their children used to love reading but now hate it because they're bored and not allowed to move up. One friend has two very bright daughters, particularly good at maths - they play competitive chess, Go, and rubix cubing - and the school has stated to her that they will not be given suitable work because they'll just be repeating it in subsequent years anyway, and the teachers need all pupils working at the same level (no reason was given as to why this is - presumably because it's easier for the teacher). Other friends have commented that the focus is very much on herding them through assessments and making sure the bottom kids scrape through.

I've tried reading their handbook to see what they say about it, but it's written in that vague, impenetrable language about frameworks and benchmarks and Getting It Right for Every Child in accordance with subsection b, paragraph 6 of the council's stated objectives etc etc etc.

Whereas, the small school says in their handbook: 'our children move through the curriculum at their own pace, and are given work according to their ability'

To me this seems far more important than how many iPads they have...

Their* official approach!

Large school it will have more opportunities for friendship groups, clubs etc. The other school is too small.

Bigger school. My bright, initially slightly timid, 5 year old is thriving in one. It's two form entry so 60 kids per year.

I went to a tiny school and as lovely as it was, high school was a shock. I barely knew any other kids and it seemed vast. I'm glad my son will already know so many other children and won't feel as lost as I did.

Firstly I wouldn't worry too much about the secondary some posters raise. For a start itis nearly ten years away and a lot can happen in that time. My dc have both gone from small schools (30 or fewer per year group) and have thrived in a bigger pool, as have theid peers. I am sure some kids struggle but you probably won't have a sense of that until he is 9/10 anyway.

Having said that 33 is very small and I know that even in small classes (less than 30 per year group) friendship groups can be more difficult. It might be good for him now, but what about when he is 9 or 10 and the only children his age and above are a group of cool girls who are just into make up and giggling and a couple of lads who kick a football around but don't let your ds join in. He also may not have the challenge of competition.

How feasible would it be to consider the small school for now with an eye to possibly moving him at a later stage? I am never too sure why people have so much concern about being sent home easy work. Do you just not speed through it and find something else to do? There are so many free resources out there. It is different if they are bored in class, but then mine just whizz through the work and spend the time planning for world domination or what games they will suggest at lunchtime.

In the small school they may be able to whizz ahead in the younger years but I doubt they will be launching into the secondary curriculum much so I imagine there will be lots of self guided projects while the teachers help the younger ones.

I'd go for the bigger school - 33 is just too small IMO.

Your 'big' school is the same size as the 'small' school my DS go to.

Personally I would send your DC to the bigger school, especially for nursery. At this age, you want them around more children of their own age at this stage. Especially if they're flourishing academically but struggling with more social things. At this stage, the focus is more on learning the basics, learning through play etc.

My 4YO is coming to the end of his nursery year and moving up to reception next year. At nursery his class size was 20 and the reception class size is 30. He is a very quiet and shy child. He has some speech problems as well. But he has really flourished in school and I think being around his peers has really helped him (he was only ever home with DS1 until the age of 2).

Also, as another PP said, don't underestimate having a school within walking distance. DS1 went to a different school at nursery that we had to drive to, whereas the one they're at now is in walking distance. The drive quickly gets old.

“the school has stated to her that they will not be given suitable work because they'll just be repeating it in subsequent years anyway, and the teachers need all pupils working at the same level”

what does their last HMIE/education Scotland report say...because if it’s been a while and they’re due one, that will change before your DS starts.

School is not just about the academics, it’s about the social side too. In such a tiny setting I can’t see how your DS will make sufficient progress in this area, which you said he is already behind in. Turn taking, sharing, working together, making friends, changing friendship groups. All just as important as learning to read and count in those early years.

I've worked in s small school with 53 pupils and like all schools had pros and cons but I wouldn't send my child to one.
Pros
Lots of time from teachers
Family atmosphere
Everyone knows everyone
Cons
Teachers have so much more to do , if there are only 2 teachers they have to split the lead of every subject between them which will take time away from pupils.
Limits to sporting participation. With so few children you can't make a football team or netball team to take part in outside competition, unless you join together with an equally small school.
Transition to large secondary can be very difficult.

The small school, rather than the tiny one, for socialising purposes, and the driving. it might be a 4-18 school but there are 3000 pupils at my kids school

For perspective, DS started school at a school with 700 students, 100 per year. One class per year is the smallest school he has attended and even that was difficult socially because there were fewer boys in his class and they all played football at lunch.

Do not go for the tiny school. You and your DS will quickly outgrow it.

It seems like you've decided anyway.

Haven’t decided anyway! Though it’s probably clear from my posts that I’m leaning towards the tiny one. I’m taking your comments ok board though - that’s a very good point about when he’s among the oldest, if the other older kids just want to play football / paint their nails, that’ll be lonely for him if he’s still not sporty and more ‘academic’.

There’s another school I’m considering, five minute drive away with 60 pupils split into three classes. I might ask there as well. We have a council that’s very open to placing children outside their zone into the smaller schools, as long as it won’t tip class numbers over the threshold they seem fine with it.

We’re not planning to send him to the secondary that the bigger school feeds into, as it has poor results and a bad reputation, so that’s another issue to consider - if he makes a good friendship group and we still don’t want to send him to the village comp, he’ll resent us hugely. It happened to me as a kid and was a disaster!

My oldest started in a village primary of 50 pupils. There was only one other girl in her class, who had a troubled home life, and the boys seemed to stick together. When we move village we move to a primary school of around 200 and it was so much better - more of a mix of pupils and a choice of friends. In a larger school, you have a chance to find your 'clan'. Plus, being walking distance from primary school is priceless, they were happy years for us. So I would start at the more local school and see how you go.

Being able to walk to school is huge, as is being able to find a friend on your wavelength - so much harder with only a few in your year.

I know you say you are thinking about schools now because of choosing nursery, however would it help just to think about it as choosing nursery for now and then not worry so much about school until next year! It really is no big deal to go to a school having attended a different nursery. At the moment you are inevitably thinking about this on the basis of having a 2 year old. Next year you will have a bit more idea about what sort of child he is and the schol,you curre toy thinkof as large will looks less so. The 2 schools have to follow the same curriculum so there won't be that much difference in what they are taught. It does sound like the larger school may not be so good at challenging older DC, which is a good specific question to ask. Bear in mind that if your DC is able (and 2 is too early to tell) they are more likely to find peers of a similar level if they have more peers! Much better for your DC to be part of a group working at the same level than an outlier.

As your in Scotland I’d just opt for your catchment school - it will be really beneficial for socialising when your DS is older plus you’d not be tying yourself into having to drive every school day for 7 years (8 if you include nursery)

Also both of the other schools you are considering are too small.

Are you planning on more DC, if your first gets into one of the smaller schools through a placement request there is no guarantee that your other DC would get in which would worry me if I’d selected a v small school.

As a primary school teacher I would question how the bigger school is able to not differentiate. It is an essential aspect of the Teaching Standards, they have to meet the needs of all children. That means differentiating for children within each class. You can't expect 30 children to all have the same knowledge.

Both bigger and smaller schools have pros and cons. It depends on your child. You'll get a good feel by doing visits there so I'd recommend that.