who should educate your child state or you ?

[Isdore]

I am worried about something and i would like us parent to take action against this trend of eroding parental responsibility. I feel the state wants to take away of our role has parents.

i have 3yr old (to young yet !) i am very worried about this !! :( :(

Please don't take the guidlines at face value-ask your school what content they are using

we need to write our MPs : stoprse.com/index.php/contact-your-local-mp/

They going to expose our children to sexualise content at the age of 3 on wards. They will decide(guidelines) this in the next 2 months

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235053 - please share this

Currently (January 2019) a subject known as Sex & Relationship Education (SRE) is taught in some UK schools; it is not compulsory and parents can withdraw their children.

However, the law is changing ….

• From 1st September, 2020 Relationship Education will be taught as compulsory in all primary schools across England (from Reception Class upwards).

• From 1st September, 2020 Relationship & Sex Education (RSE) will be taught as compulsory across all secondary schools across England.

• The government has produced draft guidelines (July 2018) on what must be taught but these are currently vague and minimal. However, they do state that L_G+B+T+ issues must be taught to all children and recommend that these issues are taught across the entire school curriculum. We are currently awaiting the finalised guidelines which should be produced in Spring 2019.

• Schools must develop their own Relationship Ed/RSE policy and curriculum and are free to determine how to teach Relationship Ed/RSE issues. Schools are free to choose whichever Relationship Ed/RSE resources they decide upon; however, the guidelines state these must be ‘age-appropriate’ and sensitive to the needs of the pupils.

• The draft guidelines clearly state that schools must work and consult with parents on the development of the Relationship Ed/RSE policy and the curriculum it uses.

I have also heard rumours that they are going after home schooling under the pretext of "boogy monster topics you see in news"! its unacceptable.

Has a catholic and parent we should have the rights and freedom to choose whats best for our children not the state or the lobby groups!

We believe it is the parent’s fundamental right to teach their child RSE topics or to at least decide who teaches them and when and how they are taught. We want the right to opt our children out of RSE when it becomes mandatory in Sept 2020.

More details
We have grave concerns about the physical, psychological and spiritual implications of teaching children about certain sexual and relational concepts proposed in RSE and believe that they have no place within a mandatory school curriculum.

We believe the above factors have not been given enough consideration and that many of the RSE resources being produced by lobby groups and external organisations will actually cause more harm than good, particularly when child development and psychological factors are considered.

silvercuckoo

So you are against schools teaching children about mutual respect, kindness etc in a relationship? Seriously. We can show examples of these things and children are asked to show many of these traits in school anyway.

Look at how opinions differ on literally every thread about a relationship problem - from "LTB and no contact with the kids for him" to "look at yourself

Yes because some people have been taught to not accept being treated badly and others have been shown through example that being treated badly is something you just get over...until next time...and then you sweep it under the carpet again etc.

Let's be honest, most people who are against this new curriculum have issues with the trans part but are picking holes in it all to try to stop it going through.

But they should at least be sticking to the facts, not teaching children that they can change sex if they want to.

You really think that a primary school is going to tell a boy that if he plays with something pink that he's a girl and needs to nip to the clinic to get it sorted ?

Or is it more likely that they briefly mention trans issues?

But they should at least be sticking to the facts, not teaching children that they can change sex if they want to.
Ok - I agree with you on that,OldCrone.
And I'm not going to have to discuss that with my small children as we are past that point.The question though makes me uncomfortably aware that I have at least one friend who think any one teaching about same sex marriage isn't sticking to the facts

But they should at least be sticking to the facts, not teaching children that they can change sex if they want to.

This I completely agree with.

You really think that a primary school is going to tell a boy that if he plays with something pink that he's a girl and needs to nip to the clinic to get it sorted ?

The materials I linked to encourage children to think they 'might be' the opposite sex that it is actually physically possible to change sex:

"Sally’s story is about a penguin child whose gender identity as a girl, was not immediately understood by her family, they thought she was a boy"

The notion of gender identity is all about the rigidity of sex-role stereotypes, which schools should be working against.

GIRES also say:
"Understanding gender diversity starts here, at primary school level, before children’s views become influenced by the prejudices of the adults around them."

Which is a very disturbing statement. GIRES has received money from the UK government to produce their materials promoting and encouraging gender confusion in children. Many schools are using their resources and those produced by other organisations with a similar agenda such as Mermaids and Allsorts.

Or is it more likely that they briefly mention trans issues?

Why would they need to do that in primary school? This is an adult issue, which children might need to know about as they approach adulthood, but 5-year-olds really don't need to be taught about this.

Ffs all your child will be learning is that some mummies love mummies and some daddies love daddies and that that is ok.. which it is, no debate.

Honestly still so much bloody bigotry in the world.

Ffs all your child will be learning is that some mummies love mummies and some daddies love daddies and that that is ok.. which it is, no debate.

No problem with that. But nobody should be teaching children that they can change sex. Many children who want to be the opposite sex as children grow up to be gay.

www.theguardian.com/film/2016/jun/19/rupert-everett-dangers-of-child-sex-change-operations-gender

“I really wanted to be a girl. Thank God the world of now wasn’t then, because I’d be on hormones and I’d be a woman. After I was 15 I never wanted to be a woman again.”

@DauntlessFaction

There is a better and proven way of learning "kindness"- through books, through observing adults, through experiencing both kindness and unkindness yourself. An idea that things like that can be taught via curriculum is, frankly, ridiculous.

An idea that things like that can be taught via curriculum is, frankly, ridiculous.

Many UK schools have been using the PATHS curriculum for years. Loads of that is teaching children about emotions and social skills and relationships. It's very successful, not ridiculous.

Why would they need to do that in primary school? This is an adult issue, which children might need to know about as they approach adulthood, but 5-year-olds really don't need to be taught about this

Because children are seeing and hearing it. They are curious and confused and often getting crap information second hand from some other kid in the playground. It should be acknowleged at the same time as stamping all over stereotype shit. Saying it's an adult issue is ridiculous....so is sex. But we still teach children about it. Should we only let people know about sex when they are 16?

They are curious and confused and often getting crap information second hand from some other kid in the playground. It should be acknowleged at the same time as stamping all over stereotype shit.

I agree, but that's not what's happening. Have a look at what GIRES are saying on the link I posted earlier. They are encouraging gender confusion by encouraging children to think about their gender - the opposite of stamping on stereotypes, because gender is all about stereotypes.

Organisations like GIRES, Mermaids and Allsorts are writing the teaching materials for schools. If they were saying to children that they could be as gender non-conforming as they like, but they can't change sex, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but that's not what they're doing. They're encouraging children to think that they are in the wrong body if they're gender non-conforming. Here's a taste of a Mermaids-style teaching graphic.

Teaching gender identity ideology is worse than anything they're learning in the playground, simply because it's coming from teachers rather than other children, which gives it a legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

Gender identity ideology, if it is taught at all, should only be taught as a religious-style belief, not as fact. Gender dysphoria, a mental condition, can be covered in the same part of the curriculum as other issues such as eating disorders and self harm. But I don't think 5-year-olds need to know any of that - it can wait until they're older.

I doubt this is a trans thing, stoprse are just plain homophobes and I suspect the OP is too.

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/04/birmingham-school-stops-lgbt-lessons-after-parent-protests

Lmao their forum has been taken over by a bunch of Chinese scammers what a bunch of twats

Sorry for resurrecting the thread but now RSE is in all schools have any of you spoken to your children about what they are learning? Has anyone asked their childs school to see their teaching materials?
My daughters in year 5 and I was given a notification about them being taught about erections and ejaculation. After further questioning I found out they would also be taught sexual arousal and orgasms. I withdrew her from the lesson but for those who see no problem with it - when your child comes home from school do you speak to your children about sexual arousal and orgasms over dinner? The same way we would speak to them about maths and English?

After reading into the RSE outline I can justify some things that make children aware of the horrible nature of people and how to handle it. However sexualising children makes absolutely no sense to me. I'm not even religious and can see that it is immoral to view children as sexual, in fact its borderline paedophilia.

Warwickshire council was about to bring in teaching materials that teach children in reception masturbation until concerned parents spoke out. I applaud parents who speak out. Some parents actually agree with children being taught this! What the actual F!
I've read that there has been a rise in children sexually abusing other children since RSE came around. This is sickening and some people still refuse to see the damage that all this is causing.
Google why children as young as 5 are taught the difference between vulva and vagina and tell me how you can justify that.

I also do not agree with teaching children the theory that gender is not the same as biological sex. That has nothing to do with accepting the LGBT community or not. It is creating confusion in a childs mind who are discovering and developing their identity in relation to the world around them. People who have concerns about this does not make them homophobic. Seriously, what happened to common sense.

Sexualising a child does not equate to keeping them safe from sexual abuse. In fact it could be argued that sexualising a child is abuse.
Telling children they can choose their gender does not equate to accepting people from the LGBT community.

Furthermore, much of the things taught in RSE should be taught in the home. I wonder if the parents who are in support of this take any accountability over their own children or just want someone else to raise them and will accept anything that is taught to them for the sake of an easy life. I am my children's mother and I know my children. It is MY job to raise my children, to protect them and to nurture them.
Yes you can remove your child from RSE lessons (although many parents I spoke with were told they can't - which is a lie) but the majority of parents wont or dont know they can or dont know whats being taught.

So I agree with the OP, the state are overstepping the line and it seems they are slowly deteriorating the role of a childs parent in their life whilst teaching children materials that should not be placed into a childs psyche. If parents are so concerned then why not fight for parents to have compulsory lessons in how to look after their own child. The responsibility of keeping a child safe lies with the parent, not with the child. You are placing a massive responsibility on your child to take on the role that you should be doing. As a parent YOU should provide your children a strong ground to build from and judging or belittling parents who want to do this, shows more about you as a person than them.
I'm not religious but the one thing I respect about those who are is that their morality isn't on a sliding scale that changes like the weather.

The state should do it. The education, attainment and outlook of the next generation is a matter of public concern, not just a matter for the family.

A child is not YOURS. They are a individual person who are not owned by anyone. Schools are completely right to educate children on a range of topics. You are deluded if your previous, innocent year 5 aged children isn’t going to hear about these lessons via their friends in the playground. So rather than them hearing & interpreting the actual facts themselves, they’ll hear a twisted view from friends laughing about the ‘embarrassing’ stuff in the playground. More confusing & probably feeling a bit baffled.

I have no problem at all talking to my child about sex over the dinner table. It’s a normal, healthy part of life. It’ll obviously be age appropriate as we go through life. I will be open & clear about the facts. And I will happily explain that biological sex & gender is different because I think it is. It’s 2022, open your mind. And if you can’t, don’t hold your children back from forming their own opinion. Because they will come across it and they are not YOURS. They are themselves. They can make their own minds up. You basically want to teach your child your views. You don’t want them to hear things you don’t like or believe in. Which is awful. And I judge you harshly for it. Funnily enough, the ones complaining are usually homophobic, transphobic, don’t believe in gender/biology differences and believe their kids won’t have sex or relationships before they are 18 😂🙄

One of my kids is 5 year old. We openly talk about her girl parts. We use the correct names & we talk about privacy & that it is hers & she mustn’t let anyone else touch it etc. Its not an easy topic but it’s really important. There was a child in a school I worked at that kept telling the teacher her uncle touched her cookie, her uncle licked her cookie. It came to light by complete chance that her mum used the term cookie as s nickname for her vagina. I was one of the most horrifying things I’ve ever dealt with. And it very much steers my views on how I talk about all this stuff to my children. My DD isn’t loosing her innocence because she knows she has a vagina & labia. She does. Same as she has arms & legs. Her boy mates deffo know they have a willy/penis/balls cos they think it’s hilarious to mention it. Girls should know what they have too. No different.

Not sure why you had to resurrect a 🧟 thread rather than starting your own @Micro1 but educating a child does not equate to sexualising one.

Also @Micro1 “ I'm not religious but the one thing I respect about those who are is that their morality isn't on a sliding scale that changes like the weather”
In my experience some religious people are the very worst offenders of this.

You're a coward. You have given away the responsibility of raising your child to someone else. You see yourself as nothing but a baby maker in that case. You're argument is the same argument I hear over and over whenever this is brought up. You all sound like you're reading from the same book and I am waiting for atleast a challenge to change my mind. I've studied social work which draws from psychological and sociological theory and I topped it off with Biochemistry. I've lived in different countries, I speak a second language and I have many hobbies. I'm very open minded.

Anyway, i challenge anyone to tell me how teaching a child masturbation protects them from sexual harm? Tell me how educating a child about masturbation isn't sexualising them? Tell me how explaining to children that the vulva is where there is sexual pleasure and the vagina is where a baby comes from, helps them in life? I'll wait.

Some of you are so hard headed that you are not listening. Parents should be the ones teaching their children certain concepts NOT the state. Teach children that there are boundaries noone can cross. That is STANDARD. If you havent done this before your child goes to school or even nursery then you are stupid. As soon as they can comprehend what you are saying, you teach them boundaries. What's wrong with you lot lol. It's like your not actually listening to what people are saying.

I have worked with many adults who have been sexually abused as children, I've also seen the aftermath of it. One of them being confused about their gender and/or homosexuality. Again, you are quick to throw the homophobic label out there with absolutely no substance behind it. Am I homophobic for pointing out a link between trauma and homosexuality. I think some of you are homophobic for not knowing this. There are people who argue that it this not the case and there is no link. The argument that there is no link is something that happens very often in the mental health system and people are not treated accordingly in regard to their sexual abuse history and are given medication which is contraindicated in patients suffering trauma, in some cases causing psychosis.

I'm very aware that paedophiles are sick disgusting people that harm children. They deserve death and the state should not protect them.

Are you are also one of those people who believe that paedophilia is a sexual preference? I believe the official term is Minor attracted persons. You people make me sick.

Secondly I asked do you speak about orgasms and sexual arousal over dinner and I can only assume you are saying yes you do. That's perverse in my eyes. Do you casually talk about what sexually arouses you whilst passing the potatoes?

Thats your business if you want to teach you're child to pick one of the many genders that is trending like they are shopping for shoes. You are not doing anything wonderful you are simply replacing one social construct (Male female roles) with another social construct. You're clouding biological science with the sociological/psychological THEORY of gender. If gender is different then why take hormones to mimic the biology of another sex? I wonder if you teach them that love has no age too.

Lastly, your child will form their opinion based on what you place in their psyche. That is simple. You think you're raising a child to have the choice to be whatever they want but you are simply offering them the illusion of choice - choices YOU gave them. YOU ARE NOT WOKE YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.

You are not allowing your child to grow and make choices based on their own feelings and intuition but instead based on what YOU think is the way forward. You are the one not allowing your child to become who they truly are. You are raising your child to become like you and the problem is, people like you dont see any issues with themselves. So the cycle continues.

www.sensoa.be/sites/default/files/digitaal_materiaal/standardsforsexualityeducationineurope.pdf

I suppose that you agree with what is written in this WHO outline of sex education too?

Drop your sword is also correct with the comment about religion. There are some highly hypocritical people who follow religion and I cannot deny that. There are also some horrifying things that were done against children and was hidden under the disguise of religion. Predators always hide in plain site. Look at those who hid as teachers, nursery managers and boy scout leaders etc not to mention TV stars who used fame as a disguise.
Now there are terrible things that are being taught directly to children under the disguise of education.

Isdore can I ask what you would do if some of your child's classmates have two mums or two dads instead of a mum and dad?

You're a coward. You have given away the responsibility of raising your child to someone else.

Meh. You could make this same argument about any subject they are being taught in school. If I’m not teaching my child every last detail about history or science does that also make me a coward who expects someone else to raise my child?

I am waiting for atleast a challenge to change my mind.
You’ll never change your mind, so no-one will ever meet this challenge in your eyes.

Tell me how explaining to children that the vulva is where there is sexual pleasure and the vagina is where a baby comes from, helps them in life? I'll wait.

I think you’ll have to wait a bit longer yet. First you actually need to understand the definitions. Are you confusing vulva with clitoris?!

Some of you are so hard headed that you are not listening.

Same as you then.

Parents should be the ones teaching their children certain concepts NOT the state.
Yes. They should. Lots don’t. And I think this is where you’ve developed a fundamental misunderstanding!! I’d say most people who are perfectly happy for schools to teach sex education are the very same parents who are already have those discussions with their children. It’s not about being lazy and not bothering to do so yourself. It’s actually accepting that not all parents do discuss these things and being happy that kids aren’t kept in ignorance.

Imo it's the parents responsibility to educate their child, absolutely. But when you send your child to school you are transferring that responsibility to the school/state. I think it's great we can withdraw our children from RSE and I will be doing so. If I weren't allowed to do that I would most definitely home-school.

@Isdore

They will allow you to remove child from sex education but not the relationship aspect

"whether to request that their child is withdrawn from sex education."

Please do your research

Based on my Catholic beliefs i don't want my child to learn this from 3years . Secondary school is more appropriate (BertrandRussell ) so your point is valid but not at primary level.

Have a look at the actual relationship lessons for small children.

One common one is to have a bowl of fruit, the children can choose a piece of fruit but the discussion is about why they picked that particular piece, was it because their friend took the same fruit? Did they feel sorry for the last apple in the bowl? What if they don't want fruit.

Personally I'd be more concerned at a school with a representation of torture on the classroom walls, telling children their friends are going to hell or saying it's wrong to eat meat on certain days of the year.