who should educate your child state or you ?

[Isdore]

I am worried about something and i would like us parent to take action against this trend of eroding parental responsibility. I feel the state wants to take away of our role has parents.

i have 3yr old (to young yet !) i am very worried about this !! :( :(

Please don't take the guidlines at face value-ask your school what content they are using

we need to write our MPs : stoprse.com/index.php/contact-your-local-mp/

They going to expose our children to sexualise content at the age of 3 on wards. They will decide(guidelines) this in the next 2 months

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235053 - please share this

Currently (January 2019) a subject known as Sex & Relationship Education (SRE) is taught in some UK schools; it is not compulsory and parents can withdraw their children.

However, the law is changing ….

• From 1st September, 2020 Relationship Education will be taught as compulsory in all primary schools across England (from Reception Class upwards).

• From 1st September, 2020 Relationship & Sex Education (RSE) will be taught as compulsory across all secondary schools across England.

• The government has produced draft guidelines (July 2018) on what must be taught but these are currently vague and minimal. However, they do state that L_G+B+T+ issues must be taught to all children and recommend that these issues are taught across the entire school curriculum. We are currently awaiting the finalised guidelines which should be produced in Spring 2019.

• Schools must develop their own Relationship Ed/RSE policy and curriculum and are free to determine how to teach Relationship Ed/RSE issues. Schools are free to choose whichever Relationship Ed/RSE resources they decide upon; however, the guidelines state these must be ‘age-appropriate’ and sensitive to the needs of the pupils.

• The draft guidelines clearly state that schools must work and consult with parents on the development of the Relationship Ed/RSE policy and the curriculum it uses.

I have also heard rumours that they are going after home schooling under the pretext of "boogy monster topics you see in news"! its unacceptable.

Has a catholic and parent we should have the rights and freedom to choose whats best for our children not the state or the lobby groups!

We believe it is the parent’s fundamental right to teach their child RSE topics or to at least decide who teaches them and when and how they are taught. We want the right to opt our children out of RSE when it becomes mandatory in Sept 2020.

More details
We have grave concerns about the physical, psychological and spiritual implications of teaching children about certain sexual and relational concepts proposed in RSE and believe that they have no place within a mandatory school curriculum.

We believe the above factors have not been given enough consideration and that many of the RSE resources being produced by lobby groups and external organisations will actually cause more harm than good, particularly when child development and psychological factors are considered.

[Micro1]

@Muffinsandfruitcakes Again, I completely agree. I think it's perverse how much detail parents go into about sex, many of them not even speaking about it in the context of reproduction or the natural cycle of life. It's not a surprise since they are separating gender from biological sex so of course they would have no issue between separating reproduction from sex.
Some cultures and religions view sex as a sacred act. Many people laugh at the idea of that but I would hope they teach their children enough values and to "be kind" to not poke fun at girls and boys for being virgins and pressure them into having sex when they aren't ready.

People keep saying that children aren't anyones property but yet they also scream for all these regulations to be forced onto children because they think it is best for the child. They are so very hypocritical.
These people claim to be inclusive but are so quick to exclude cultural and religious differences. It's like they want everyone to be the same, same culture, same beliefs, same sex, same gender, same same.
The natural world is a system built from the diversity of organisms and humans are no exception to this. They claim people like us have an irrational fear of change when in reality they have irrational fears of differences. These people are happy to defy laws of nature but I BET you they are climate change and environmental activists. Hypocrisy is funny and I love pointing it out.
I didn't see where someone said homeschooling should be banned but it's no surprise. They can do one, idiots. Their probably scared that a home-schooled child could excel in life and be different lol.

[AlexaShutUp]

[quote Muffinsandfruitcakes]@Micro1 whilst some families are okay with showering together and nudity or discussing sex with their 5 year old over their spag bol or fish and chip supper, people need to realise that not everyone and certainly some cultures wont be. Some cultures will find talking about sex in an open forum quitr offensive. Some people and cultures don't talk about sex openly and its spoken about privately on a need to know basis decided by the parent. Such people should be allowed to withdraw their child from being present at any such "teaching"/indoctrinating sessions at school. And no, home schooling should not be banned as a pp has suggested, freedom to home school should be banned no more than his/her right to vote.[/quote]
It's tricky, isn't it? On balance, I don't support banning home education, but I do worry about it sometimes. The lack of regulation seems to prioritise the rights of the parent (to educate their child as they see fit) over and above the rights of the child (to get a good education). Some HE kids get a fantastic education, of course, but what about the ones who don't?

Children are not the possessions of their parents. They have rights and needs of their own. Ultimately, I guess it's a question of the point at which the parents' right to practise their culture and religion etc is trumped by the child's right to receive a broad and holistic education. And who gets to decide.

None of these questions are straightforward, but I think if we have to err on one side or another, it would be on the side of giving the child the broadest possible education, with parents offering their own input alongside that to challenge and question anything that they don't agree with.

[Muffinsandfruitcakes]

@Micro1 whilst some families are okay with showering together and nudity or discussing sex with their 5 year old over their spag bol or fish and chip supper, people need to realise that not everyone and certainly some cultures wont be. Some cultures will find talking about sex in an open forum quitr offensive. Some people and cultures don't talk about sex openly and its spoken about privately on a need to know basis decided by the parent. Such people should be allowed to withdraw their child from being present at any such "teaching"/indoctrinating sessions at school. And no, home schooling should not be banned as a pp has suggested, freedom to home school should be banned no more than his/her right to vote.

[Micro1]

@JessieLongleg
I think the problem with gender studies at a very young age is that children will relate much of what they learn to themselves before applying it to others. We know this, which is why we explain to a child how it feels to be at the receiving end of bullying to teach them that it isn't nice to be a bully. They are learning about the world and learning about how they will fit into it. Just teach children that people live different lives and that's OK. Simple.

I think that making children look at themselves as merely a social construct of gender creates confusion in their mind and we have yet to see the repercussions of this.

My sister works in a high school and has found that in the last 5 years depression, anxiety, insecurities etc has risen massively in the children. Many of these children also say they identify as a different gender or identify as genderless and express that they feel suicidal or show signs of depression and it many circumstances the teachers have been told they need to be given permission from the child to tell their parents about anything they have said in school. This school is one which Stonewall has heavily influenced.
Many of the teachers in this school are finding it very difficult to openly discuss their concerns and observations as they are immediately labelled with homophobic or anti-trans.
I am not insinuating that the LGBT community have caused this I am simply pointing out that there is a generation of children who are suffering with the concepts that are shown to them and noone is doing anything about it. But yet you all care so much about children?

Now these concepts are being taught to children from the age of 5. There are even parents who are raising their children as genderless. We do not know psychology to the extent that we know how a child's mind will process this information being presented to them.

I have spoken to MANY gay and lesbian people who condemn what is happening in schools and are not supportive of it. Their voices are not being heard however.

Telling a child that they can choose their gender or that gender is not the same as biological sex will not stop sexism. It doesn't make any sense.

many studies have shown women handle pain better than men and put their needs below the rest of the family. So it's a very outdated saying. Maybe some people are not just anti trans but know they gain for acting like the weaker partner in a relationship

Many men are well aware women can handle physical pain more than they could. Many men respect women for that. Anyone who places themselves lower in a partnership is not in a true partnership. That applies to EVERYONE whatever your sexual orientation is.

Who is anti trans and gains for acting like their weak in a partnership? Gain what exactly? You're viewing women in relationships as weak then? If a woman is in a relationship and she is comfortable to show her vulnerability do you deem that as weak? A man showing his vulnerability is weak too? It seems YOU have an issue with weakness and are scared to be vulnerable. You might need some lessons in relationships and how insecurities manifest into people "acting" strong, in that case. I am a proud woman and mother. I love the strong women and men in my life and we are all comfortable being vulnerable around each other.

A woman can knock your teeth out whilst carrying a baby on her back to protect her family. Nothing weak about that, Mums are amazing. I believe women should be respected, as without women none of us would be here. I believe men should be respected for that same reason.
Men who abuse women are cowards, women who abuse men are cowards and anyone who abuses children are a waste of oxygen and I believe brainwashing a child into being genderless is a form of abuse.

[JessieLongleg]

@Micro1 see my reply to you above forgot to tag yourself

[JessieLongleg]

Personally I don't think teenagers should go through full biology trans changes as it's a time for a lot of us have unknown insercurites about our bodies. Being young we many thing we know it all but cant really get the full consequences in life. But I don't see gender etc studies as a method of teaching someone to be a certain way just to make people more aware of other people in the world. Also to tackle things like the very sexist language we have in society for example I was with someone describing a reaction as being a big girls blouse, and a young girl said that's not socially acceptable to say(after learning gender studies at school). Why not, many studies have shown women handle pain better than men and put their needs below the rest of the family. So it's a very outdated saying. Maybe some people are not just anti trans but know they gain for acting like the weaker partner in a relationship.

[Micro1]

@JessieLongleg I understand what you're saying. I have friends from school who are gay/lesbian who came out as adults. I have a family member who is a lesbian and nearly went through life changing medical procedures before she found the confidence to happy in her body, as a woman. Before she was comfortable in her body she was in a deep depression and now she is happily married with a wife.
I don't think gay or lesbian people should be shunned from society and be a dirty little secret. I think many are concerned that convincing a child they are not the same gender as their biological sex can create all sorts of confusion issues. I was a tom boy as a child, that didn't mean I wasn't happy being a girl or that I believed my biology was different to my gender.
There are many trans people who have regretted their decision and at a later date was happy being gay or lesbian or just realised they didn't have confidence in their body.
This is why it's so irritating when people scream homophobic for no reason. Society has seemed to have gone from shunning gay and lesbian people to shunning people and labeling them as homophobic who have rational concerns that gender related topics are confusing children.

[AlexaShutUp]

Home schooling is an option if you don't like the school curriculum.

Personally, I think children have a right to learn about this stuff. It is possible that the trans ideology taught in some schools might differ from my views on the subject, but I wouldn't have a problem with that - I would just present an alternative point of view to my child.

I think it's concerning when parents are frightened of their children being exposed to different ideas, beliefs and points of view. If you're confident that your position stacks up, then what have you got to fear?

[JessieLongleg]

Well the wider amount of people children meet the more tolerant of they become. At about 5ish they note the world around them can't believe in this modern world you don't know anyone who is gay etc to spark a conversation about it. Hence why this is needed.

[Newnamemsz]

.

[Fallagain]

By sending your child to state school you are making the state responsible for your child’s education.

[Micro1]

Honestly, you aren’t looking for an open conversation. You just want to argue. I think you’re wrong. We’re done here!

Coward.

[Micro1]

@Muffinsandfruitcakes I completely agree, and it's an unfortunate truth that many don't want to face. Once we send our children to the state we are giving them the responsibility to educate them however they see fit. I applaud you and other parents who are proactive in protecting their children from education that is damaging.
When I went to withdraw my child from some of the lessons I was told I couldn't, I read through the science curriculum and the RSE outline. There is NOTHING to indicate a child must sit through these lessons and the RSE outline is very vague thus open to interpretation. You must be shown the specific lesson materials if you ask and if you think they aren't appropriate you have the right to withdraw. My child was withdrawn after a long conversation with the head teacher.
Another parent asked what the children would be taught and the teacher straight lied about what they would learn, despite it being a legal obligation to show parents the lesson materials.
Other parents have used playground chat as justification for learning this mess rather than just addressing where this mess came from. In fact, they have actually proved that these topics are a mess as surely children should be able to reiterate the information they learnt in a way that is not damaging to other children. Hypocrisy is loud for a reason. I digress, it is a reality that playground chat could introduce these topics so like you, I'm considering homeschooling now.
I have much respect for parents like you.

[DropYourSword]

Looks like I will be waiting longer since you conveniently ignored my other questions.

I conveniently ignored your other questions because I got bored and stopped reading. Just as I’ve stopped bothering to read your message after this point!

Honestly, you aren’t looking for an open conversation. You just want to argue. I think you’re wrong. We’re done here!

[Micro1]

You're a coward if you refuse to look at the damage of teaching children certain topics. You're a coward for passing the responsibility of "keeping your child safe" to the state. You're a coward if you have done NO research into what your child is learning when you aren't there.


You’ll never change your mind, so no-one will ever meet this challenge in your eyes.

I won't change my mind when the SAME argument is presented to me over and over. I'm more than happy to debate the role of the state, various topics or how some parents are cowards but I won't change my mind on specific topics that i have mentioned before because some of them are just immoral and perverse. This is why I said the one thing I can respect about people who follow a religion is that their morality is not on a sliding scale. Many have already illustrated that theirs is.

As I said, you all sound like you're reading from the same book and using weak arguments to justify lessons which sexualise and psychologically damage children or just plain ignore these issues and claim they don't exist.


I think you’ll have to wait a bit longer yet. First you actually need to understand the definitions. Are you confusing vulva with clitoris?!

Looks like I will be waiting longer since you conveniently ignored my other questions. The irony is it seems you are confused with the definitions, this demonstrates that you do not know what your child is learning.

Ks1: H25. to name the main parts of the body including external genitalia (e.g. vulva, vagina, penis, testicles). Taken from the PHSE programme of study which incorporates the newly introduced RSE.
Please refer to the picture I have attached. Take note of the age range.


Same as you then.

I agreed with your comment about some religious people and institutions. I went into more depth too. I did not blindly argue against the issues you mentioned out of ignorance or arrogance.


I’d say most people who are perfectly happy for schools to teach sex education are the very same parents who are already have those discussions with their children.

You should clarify what you think sex education is before we continue. If you think sexual arousal, orgasms, and masturbation is sex education then do you speak with your children about this before they go to primary school? Another parent above has said she/he does. Do you agree with that parent?


It’s actually accepting that not all parents do discuss these things and being happy that kids aren’t kept in ignorance.

I will not not teach my children sexual arousal, I will not teach my children about orgasms, I will not teach my children about masturbation, I will not show my children pictures of genitalia, I will not show my children cartoons having sex, I will not teach my children topics which can cause psychological harm, I will not teach my children that they can choose whatever gender they want, I will not allow the state to teach my children these things.

What I have learnt to accept is there are parents who allow their children to learn these topics and happily stay ignorant and claim no accountability to the repercussions of their choices.

You are confusing parents having conversations with their children about the natural cycle of life with sexual perversion. Sexual perversion in this context is sexualising young children and teaching them materials which have no place in a child's psyche.
You are also confusing parents having conversations with their children about boundaries with introducing images and concepts to them that they are too young to understand. An example of this is consent which is a concept taught in RSE. Consent is defined as "give permission for something to happen" - this indicates a choice. Do you tell your children they have a choice in who can cross their boundaries? Can you not see how these concepts can be manipulated to cause harm? Boundaries are never to be crossed, there is no choice. Stop putting that responsibility onto children, just protect them like you should. It's so simple.

Again, the argument I hear is the same every single time. Justification, pure ignorance or straight up support of the teaching materials. All of which are ignoring or downplaying the issues brought forward by parents who can see there is something morally corrupt in what is being taught to children.

[sashh]

@Isdore

They will allow you to remove child from sex education but not the relationship aspect

"whether to request that their child is withdrawn from sex education."

Please do your research

Based on my Catholic beliefs i don't want my child to learn this from 3years . Secondary school is more appropriate (BertrandRussell ) so your point is valid but not at primary level.

Have a look at the actual relationship lessons for small children.

One common one is to have a bowl of fruit, the children can choose a piece of fruit but the discussion is about why they picked that particular piece, was it because their friend took the same fruit? Did they feel sorry for the last apple in the bowl? What if they don't want fruit.

Personally I'd be more concerned at a school with a representation of torture on the classroom walls, telling children their friends are going to hell or saying it's wrong to eat meat on certain days of the year.

[Muffinsandfruitcakes]

Imo it's the parents responsibility to educate their child, absolutely. But when you send your child to school you are transferring that responsibility to the school/state. I think it's great we can withdraw our children from RSE and I will be doing so. If I weren't allowed to do that I would most definitely home-school.

[DropYourSword]

You're a coward. You have given away the responsibility of raising your child to someone else.

Meh. You could make this same argument about any subject they are being taught in school. If I’m not teaching my child every last detail about history or science does that also make me a coward who expects someone else to raise my child?

I am waiting for atleast a challenge to change my mind.
You’ll never change your mind, so no-one will ever meet this challenge in your eyes.

Tell me how explaining to children that the vulva is where there is sexual pleasure and the vagina is where a baby comes from, helps them in life? I'll wait.

I think you’ll have to wait a bit longer yet. First you actually need to understand the definitions. Are you confusing vulva with clitoris?!

Some of you are so hard headed that you are not listening.

Same as you then.

Parents should be the ones teaching their children certain concepts NOT the state.
Yes. They should. Lots don’t. And I think this is where you’ve developed a fundamental misunderstanding!! I’d say most people who are perfectly happy for schools to teach sex education are the very same parents who are already have those discussions with their children. It’s not about being lazy and not bothering to do so yourself. It’s actually accepting that not all parents do discuss these things and being happy that kids aren’t kept in ignorance.

[Newnamemsz]

Isdore can I ask what you would do if some of your child's classmates have two mums or two dads instead of a mum and dad?

[Micro1]

Drop your sword is also correct with the comment about religion. There are some highly hypocritical people who follow religion and I cannot deny that. There are also some horrifying things that were done against children and was hidden under the disguise of religion. Predators always hide in plain site. Look at those who hid as teachers, nursery managers and boy scout leaders etc not to mention TV stars who used fame as a disguise.
Now there are terrible things that are being taught directly to children under the disguise of education.

[Micro1]

You're a coward. You have given away the responsibility of raising your child to someone else. You see yourself as nothing but a baby maker in that case. You're argument is the same argument I hear over and over whenever this is brought up. You all sound like you're reading from the same book and I am waiting for atleast a challenge to change my mind. I've studied social work which draws from psychological and sociological theory and I topped it off with Biochemistry. I've lived in different countries, I speak a second language and I have many hobbies. I'm very open minded.

Anyway, i challenge anyone to tell me how teaching a child masturbation protects them from sexual harm? Tell me how educating a child about masturbation isn't sexualising them? Tell me how explaining to children that the vulva is where there is sexual pleasure and the vagina is where a baby comes from, helps them in life? I'll wait.

Some of you are so hard headed that you are not listening. Parents should be the ones teaching their children certain concepts NOT the state. Teach children that there are boundaries noone can cross. That is STANDARD. If you havent done this before your child goes to school or even nursery then you are stupid. As soon as they can comprehend what you are saying, you teach them boundaries. What's wrong with you lot lol. It's like your not actually listening to what people are saying.

I have worked with many adults who have been sexually abused as children, I've also seen the aftermath of it. One of them being confused about their gender and/or homosexuality. Again, you are quick to throw the homophobic label out there with absolutely no substance behind it. Am I homophobic for pointing out a link between trauma and homosexuality. I think some of you are homophobic for not knowing this. There are people who argue that it this not the case and there is no link. The argument that there is no link is something that happens very often in the mental health system and people are not treated accordingly in regard to their sexual abuse history and are given medication which is contraindicated in patients suffering trauma, in some cases causing psychosis.

I'm very aware that paedophiles are sick disgusting people that harm children. They deserve death and the state should not protect them.

Are you are also one of those people who believe that paedophilia is a sexual preference? I believe the official term is Minor attracted persons. You people make me sick.

Secondly I asked do you speak about orgasms and sexual arousal over dinner and I can only assume you are saying yes you do. That's perverse in my eyes. Do you casually talk about what sexually arouses you whilst passing the potatoes?

Thats your business if you want to teach you're child to pick one of the many genders that is trending like they are shopping for shoes. You are not doing anything wonderful you are simply replacing one social construct (Male female roles) with another social construct. You're clouding biological science with the sociological/psychological THEORY of gender. If gender is different then why take hormones to mimic the biology of another sex? I wonder if you teach them that love has no age too.

Lastly, your child will form their opinion based on what you place in their psyche. That is simple. You think you're raising a child to have the choice to be whatever they want but you are simply offering them the illusion of choice - choices YOU gave them. YOU ARE NOT WOKE YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.

You are not allowing your child to grow and make choices based on their own feelings and intuition but instead based on what YOU think is the way forward. You are the one not allowing your child to become who they truly are. You are raising your child to become like you and the problem is, people like you dont see any issues with themselves. So the cycle continues.

www.sensoa.be/sites/default/files/digitaal_materiaal/standardsforsexualityeducationineurope.pdf

I suppose that you agree with what is written in this WHO outline of sex education too?

[DropYourSword]

Also @Micro1 “ I'm not religious but the one thing I respect about those who are is that their morality isn't on a sliding scale that changes like the weather”
In my experience some religious people are the very worst offenders of this.

[DropYourSword]

Not sure why you had to resurrect a 🧟 thread rather than starting your own @Micro1 but educating a child does not equate to sexualising one.

[Bobholll]

A child is not YOURS. They are a individual person who are not owned by anyone. Schools are completely right to educate children on a range of topics. You are deluded if your previous, innocent year 5 aged children isn’t going to hear about these lessons via their friends in the playground. So rather than them hearing & interpreting the actual facts themselves, they’ll hear a twisted view from friends laughing about the ‘embarrassing’ stuff in the playground. More confusing & probably feeling a bit baffled.

I have no problem at all talking to my child about sex over the dinner table. It’s a normal, healthy part of life. It’ll obviously be age appropriate as we go through life. I will be open & clear about the facts. And I will happily explain that biological sex & gender is different because I think it is. It’s 2022, open your mind. And if you can’t, don’t hold your children back from forming their own opinion. Because they will come across it and they are not YOURS. They are themselves. They can make their own minds up. You basically want to teach your child your views. You don’t want them to hear things you don’t like or believe in. Which is awful. And I judge you harshly for it. Funnily enough, the ones complaining are usually homophobic, transphobic, don’t believe in gender/biology differences and believe their kids won’t have sex or relationships before they are 18 😂🙄

One of my kids is 5 year old. We openly talk about her girl parts. We use the correct names & we talk about privacy & that it is hers & she mustn’t let anyone else touch it etc. Its not an easy topic but it’s really important. There was a child in a school I worked at that kept telling the teacher her uncle touched her cookie, her uncle licked her cookie. It came to light by complete chance that her mum used the term cookie as s nickname for her vagina. I was one of the most horrifying things I’ve ever dealt with. And it very much steers my views on how I talk about all this stuff to my children. My DD isn’t loosing her innocence because she knows she has a vagina & labia. She does. Same as she has arms & legs. Her boy mates deffo know they have a willy/penis/balls cos they think it’s hilarious to mention it. Girls should know what they have too. No different.

[AuntyBumBum]

The state should do it. The education, attainment and outlook of the next generation is a matter of public concern, not just a matter for the family.