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Original poster

does a school have to consult parents before implementing a 4.5 day week?

232 replies

fivennotfour · 10/02/2019 09:10

got letter home last week. After the summer, school will only be open 4.5 days instead of 5 due to budget retrains.

there will be limited placed for the Friday after school club - probably nowhere near as many needed. Many working parents will be shafted.

Anyhow, there was no consultation by school. just a letter letting us know that these changes will come.
Can they just do it.

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2019Dancerz · 13/02/2019 18:49

Why are Academies a good idea? (Not in England)

redyawn · 13/02/2019 19:02

What @Iggly says!

I'm a school governor and our head has mentioned this as a future possibility if the funding continues to worsen.

OhDearGodLookAtThisMess · 13/02/2019 19:11

All schools got the funding

My understanding was that the Government only funded the first % or so, and that schools had to stump up the rest.

Bestseller · 13/02/2019 19:12

I've no idea Dancerz. I've done a lot of work on it this year because were practically the last to convert in our area.

I cant see any financial advantages for the schools, although early converters did benefit.

Some schools converted in the belief that it would give they more autonomy but the reality is that being part of a MAT seems to remove almost all decision making from local management. You can't convert as a standalone academy any more.

Some struggling schools have benefited from the support gained through being in a MAT

TBH the conclusion I have made us that it's all about egos. The head of an outstanding school has nowhere left to go.... Unless he/ she converts to the lead in a MAT and starts building an empire. Plus, the some MAT CEOs (headteachers) are on well over six figure salaries

Bestseller · 13/02/2019 19:14

Yes Ohdear. The govt claimed that it was fully funded. We got about a third of the actual cost. And that's only for the first 18 months

Walkaround · 13/02/2019 19:23

It's been spin, half-truth and outright lying from the DfE for years. The most astonishing lie was when it included university tuition fees and private school fees in its calculation of how much the UK spends on education and then used those figures to argue that they proved it was funding state schools sufficiently... when clearly a colossal amount of that quoted figure had nothing whatsoever to do with government funding of state schools.

SinkGirl · 13/02/2019 19:38

Unlikely the school will change it but I would gather parents to put pressure on them to put parent-funded afterschool clubs in place for all the children who need them. I’m sure the TAs who’ll have their hours and therefore income cut would be interested in the opportunity to still work those hours. If not I’m sure some businesses will see the need and provide a service but it may not be cheap!

Bestseller · 13/02/2019 19:46

IME afterschool clubs are an administrative nightmare for the school and its really hard to get parents to actually pay. When I went into one shool the debt owed by parents to the breakfast and after school club was £38k!!

Maybe an enterprising parent or group of parents could run it as a business?

RosieEffect · 13/02/2019 20:27

Will the after school places be that much more in demand than the current situation?
For SAHM the result is they pick their kid up early. For working parents they still need after school care. The only additional places for after school will be for those who work on a Friday but finish by the time school closes. How many parents can that be? And of those that have flexible working, they may be able to change their hours to other days and end earlier on a Friday. Hopefully it will work out.

Unfortunately like a pp said, school is not there to be free childcare so it is ultimately a parents responsibility to sort out. Schools across England are expecting a £535 million budget deficit for next year...they really don't have a choice but to take drastic measures. Complain to the government about their lack of funding.

Idonotlikeyoudonaldtrump · 13/02/2019 20:29

Thing is, school isn’t childcare.

SinkGirl · 13/02/2019 22:24

No, it’s not childcare - but our society operates on the basis that children are at school Monday to Friday, and jobs and available childcare operate around those hours. If that changes, that would lead to a lot of people having to stop working because the supply of childcare for that one afternoon a week doesn’t meet the demand of all the parents who work full time at present.

TildaTurnip · 13/02/2019 22:53

No, it’s not childcare - but our society operates on the basis that children are at school Monday to Friday, and jobs and available childcare operate around those hours. If that changes, that would lead to a lot of people having to stop working because the supply of childcare for that one afternoon a week doesn’t meet the demand of all the parents who work full time at present

Exactly but people just keep repeating that school isn’t free childcare.

Education is part of a wider system that is there to improve outcomes for children. Potentially putting families further into poverty is not the answer. And 7 months is not enough notice for everyone, especially when there was no consultation process to even give wind that there was a possibility.

I think the NAHT need to be fighting such battles.

TildaTurnip · 13/02/2019 23:11

Just to add that I am not blaming HTs, I’m in support of the NAHT fighting the cuts.

LeadMeToTheChocolate · 13/02/2019 23:19

Stop voting conservative.
They cut our budgets... education staff have been warning people about this FOR YEARS!!!!
No school would do this unless they were desperate.

AlexaShutUp · 13/02/2019 23:38

As a working parent, I sympathise with the OP. I get how hard it can be to work around an unexpected change of this nature.

However, as a school governor, I know that school funding is indeed in crisis. Our school has had to set a deficit budget and we are spending our reserves in order to pay for the basics. We have stripped back all of the non-essential stuff but we are facing the very real prospect of not even being able to pay for the basics when our reserves are all spent. If the situation doesn't improve, we will be forced to take radical action to survive. Consequently, I'm not at all surprised that some schools are deciding to do this, and they may feel that a consultation is pointless because there is no other way of making up the shortfall.

It's shit, but as others have said, the real problem here is central government. I do not believe that many parents have even the faintest idea of how bad things have got.

Walkaround · 14/02/2019 08:01

TildaTurnip - the NAHT has been fighting these battles. Are tou not evn aware of that? So long as parents sit back and say it is up to the NAHT, the government will continue to ignore them, because it's all about political pressure, and angry voters hold more sway than experts (or haven't you noticed?...).

TildaTurnip · 14/02/2019 08:12

TildaTurnip - the NAHT has been fighting these battles. Are tou not evn aware of that? So long as parents sit back and say it is up to the NAHT, the government will continue to ignore them, because it's all about political pressure, and angry voters hold more sway than experts (or haven't you noticed?...)

You’ve misinterpreted my post. I said they need to be and that I am in support of them doing so. I’m glad they are. So yes, thank you, I am aware of that. I support heads in doing this and very much see unions as part of the political process. Unions are a vehicle for change whereas the voting system does not allow for everyone to make their voices heard.

I don’t think parents, voters or experts are having much luck at the moment so no I haven’t noticed that point.

Walkaround · 14/02/2019 08:27

Hmm. Well, voters voted for Brexit and voters thought it a good idea to show their disapproval of the Liberal Democrats in coalition by wiping out the middle ground and leaving the Conservatives in sole control, so I would say that voters have had rather a lot of influence, recently.

sashh · 14/02/2019 08:29

Ah, cross-post. So they're not actually losing any teaching time. How does it save them money, and how much money do they project saving by doing this?

  1. all PPA can be done on the Friday afternoon so no need to cover individual teachers.

  2. you can close the classrooms and make PPA be in the staff room and then turn off lights and heating.

  3. if you close before lunch then you don't need to employ kitchen and lunch time staff on the Friday. Children on FSM can be given a packed lunch prepared the day before.

  4. any agency staff only need to be paid a half day, I have no idea what schools pay but I get £150 a day as a cover teacher.

Youmadorwhat

I don't think it matters what the actual school day and terms are if everyone knows what they will be before having children, a sudden change is what makes things difficult. If you children suddenly had monday morning off school would you have childcare in place?

BubblesBuddy · 14/02/2019 11:37

You cannot turn heating off completely in the middle of a cold winter. Many TAs have contracts that are not 0 hours. We pay the majority on standard contracts that would have to be varied. We have additional TAs who have variable hours and work with Sen children. Altering a schools opening hours isn’t easy and they should have canvassed parents.

I think some schools like to become academies because it gives the heads a chance to be executive heads and earn more! They move up the food chain and it helps their careers. It doesn’t do much for the children!

RustyBear · 14/02/2019 12:19

You can put the heating on frost protect for Friday afternoon- if you have a computer controlled system like we did at the junior school I worked at, you can do it in seconds.
Also the change is starting in September, if the TAs contracts are done for a year at a time the change can be done easily.
I agree that they should have consulted, but they are giving quite a lot of notice.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 14/02/2019 17:02

What would you like to cut instead OP?

BubblesBuddy · 14/02/2019 17:38

TAs do not necessarily have variable contracts. Their family organisation might be affected too. Yes, they have given notice but it’s highly contentious and dismissive of parental views. Not that they actually know them if course. Therefore poor practice and certainly not good for improved parent partnership.

As I don’t know the school, it’s difficult to say what should be cut. It depends what they spend money on. Our DH does a 4 day week. We have several younger members of staff. We have 30 children in every class. We look carefully at all expenditure. You can cut out lots of smaller things. Everything needs looking at and models of expenditure at similar schools is also worth exploration. Working with other schools and sharing resources might be an option. No one says it’s easy and reducing hours on a Friday might be a solution but not consulting parents isn’t acceptable.

Also, has the school received it’s final budget yet? I doubt it.,

sashh · 15/02/2019 08:06

OK I misphrased it, the heating can be turned down to a minimum or as someone else said frost protection.

Mistressiggi · 15/02/2019 10:08

How can a teacher plan properly if denied access to their classroom?