does a school have to consult parents before implementing a 4.5 day week?

[fivennotfour]

got letter home last week. After the summer, school will only be open 4.5 days instead of 5 due to budget retrains.

there will be limited placed for the Friday after school club - probably nowhere near as many needed. Many working parents will be shafted.

Anyhow, there was no consultation by school. just a letter letting us know that these changes will come.
Can they just do it.

If parents kick off at the governors, then the real villains - the conservative government- get away with it yet again
This.

If teaching hours remain the same, wouldn't support staff requirements stay the same?

No, because you wouldn’t need them to cover the teachers’ PPA any more.

Support staff are being massively cut in many schools anyway, so I think things will head back to one teacher in front of a class of children, with TAs only being employed for very high need SEN pupils. That will save more money.

And ps I'm unfortunately a lone parent too

@EarringsandLipstick fair play to you! 💕 I’m going to get bashed for this statement I know but I do feel Irish parents just get on with it and accept that they have to pay for childcare to fit around work hours instead of blaming schools/government for not accommodating them!

You misunderstand me. It is not a statement that Irish parents cannot or will not pay for childcare.

It is a statement that the Irish school system is set up differently and thus childcare reflects that.

To put it another way, children start school in the academic year they turn five, thus day nurseries are set up for children up to the age of four. If the school starting age was raised to seven, day nurseries would probably take children up to the age of six. That is fine.

This is not about Irish/English/welsh/French/American parents being different in their attitudes, it is simply that if there are no childminders with spaces for your eight year old and no room in the after school club, what the fuck do you do? How do you “get on with it”? I’m English so clearly I just don’t know.

If the school needs to save money, I'd rather it come through cutting school hours (whilst maintaining the same number of teaching hours) rather than savings impacting on education.

So I'd rather this than cutting the number of teachers/ TAs/ special needs staff, employing cheaper less experienced staff, or reducing the quality of classroom resources.

If the school needs to make savings, something will have to give. Yes it is very difficult for full time workers, but in the end the school's role is to educate children, and they can't sacrifice the education of all the children for helping working parents, which in the end isn't the school's responsibility.

The real problem is the cuts in funding which mean schools are making these unpalatable choices.

In the end austerity pushes costs from the state onto individuals, by the state providing less. So parents end up paying for childcare rather than the state funding schools more. I very much disagree with recent austerity changes, but there you go, it is what the country has voted for.

I do think it's unhelpful that the school didn't float the possibility prior to reception places. I guess schools are in competition to attract pupils so they will prioritise this.

It would also be great if they could expand the after school club. Our reception offers this cheaply and still generates a profit.

in the end the school's role is to educate children, and they can't sacrifice the education of all the children for helping working parents

Yes, that is the crux of the matter.

It won’t impact on the teaching time so won’t actually affect the children-in the end it’s the working parents who are affected. I would rather that happened and children are unaffected, than have massive class sizes or unqualified teachers.

Agree with this

So I'd rather this than cutting the number of teachers/ TAs/ special needs staff, employing cheaper less experienced staff, or reducing the quality of classroom resources.

Excellent post HopelesslydevotedtoGu

It's crap but not the school's fault. I'd be looking at a reciprocal babysitting arrangement if I couldn't get childcare.

The thing is in many schools PPA is covered by unqualified members of staff who have little to no ability at teaching meaning that in essence it is wasted time for the children. By shortening the week and allowing all teachers to take PPA together on a Friday afternoon those children whose parents are not working on a Friday can gain additional family time for very little educational loss. While it may cause short term childcare issues for working parents in the longer term things will develop on a Friday afternoon so that there is sufficient paid childcare available for the number of families requiring it.

Has no one else done the maths here? If children aren't losing out on curriculum time, it means the teachers are working longer hours for the same pay. PPA is meant to be 10% of their teaching time. If that 10% is being done on a Friday afternoon, but made up elsewhere in the week so the children don't lose out, teachers are covering their own PPA. Which is NOT what's meant to happen.

And, as an aside, it would also give an opportunity for dental/eye tests to be taken on a Friday afternoon, we already have an unbelievable number of children being taken out of school at Friday lunchtimes, to beat the traffic for a weekend getaway for "dentist" appointments. Our local dentist must be swamped.

@OhDearGodLookAtThisMess but schools can just increase the length of the school day through adding ten minutes here and there-like I said upthread.

He brought the start time forward from 8.55 to 8.45, cut 15 minutes off the lunchtime, scrapped afternoon play and added ten minutes to the end of the day (3.30 instead of 3.20).

We were in class for an extra 45 minutes each day! We just had to suck it up :(

Presumably the head is doing this to placate the parents.

So I'd rather this than cutting the number of teachers/ TAs/ special needs staff, employing cheaper less experienced staff, or reducing the quality of classroom resources.

This is what has happened in my area. Every so often they talk about shortening the school week. Despite the fact this works well in neighbouring regions, parents are up in arms every time and the LA backs down. Instead they cut SFLA, and other services for children with disabilities. These are now at a fraction of the provision they were 5 years ago. Really vulnerable kids have missed out all because parents of mainstream whine about having to find childcare.

It certainly seems true that parents don't give a shit about conditions in state schools until it affects them personally.

That is because being a lone working parent to young children is not conducive to dedication to political movements. In fact, it is hard. Very hard. And very stressful.

My dcs high school closes early one day a week, this had been since September. It's midweek rather than a Friday which I find odd.

I wish my children's secondary school would do this instead of cutting staff and employing cheaper less experienced staff.

If we want change, we need to challenge the politicians. But we don’t, because we operate a political system that is effectively tribal and it doesn’t seem to matter how poor the leaders are, we keep voting for them.

I moved from mainstream into special ed. a few years ago. I went back to my old school to visit just before Christmas. A TA was leaving and wasn't being replaced. The Head said that he won't be replacing any that leave from now on. There is one TA now working across 3 classes.

But the expectations on the teachers are greater. They are expected to create and keep 30 'enrichment books' up to date for their classes. This is photographs and comments about all of the 'learning outside the classroom' the children do. They are expected to keep their displays pristine and their books immaculate with absolutely no support. I just don't know how it's possible. I have never seen such a miserable looking bunch of people.

And my school is depressing too. All of the children have EHC plans. All of those plans state (in a legally binding document) that the children are entitled to qualified SEN teachers. Only 4 of us have the required M.Eds now out of the whole teaching staff. The school can't afford to pay for teachers to be trained. We are basically breaking the law and the children are not getting their entitlement.

There are just so many of these terrible things going on - and I just wonder when people are going to cotton on and start making more noise about it.

Maybe if some disgruntled parents actually started kicking up and big, noisy stink about it all something might happen?

I don't know how bad it has to get before that happens.

It is these situations when parents are being put in untenable situations with childcare that you would expect some loud, public protesting to start...

...but no. It's the schools' fault!

Divide and rule. At its worst:

that the children are entitled to qualified SEN teachers. Only 4 of us have the required M.Eds now out of the whole teaching staff.

I’m interested-What qualification does it state you must have? Are you in England?

Again in Ireland we don’t have TA’s only SNA’s who are assigned to a child.

In England. It's a bit outing so I didn't specify.

Teachers of the Deaf. It says in the EHC plans that they are entitled to teaching by a qualified TOD.

the jewish schools near me (there are several) obviously do reduced hours on a Friday, but have shorter holidays and/or some Sunday teaching to make up the difference.

The Jewish schools all do this. The state schools do not have Sunday teaching or shorter holidays, the holidays can be at slightly different times but have to be the same amount as all other schools.

The days are slightly longer, 8.30 - 4pm but that includes an extra lesson per day of religious studies on top of normal curriculum

The early Friday finish is actually really nice. It’s definitely play date afternoon in primary and in secondary it gives the kids a chance to hang out with friends and to relax.

Having said that, it’s not sprung on parents and they know that’s what the hours are when they sign up to the school.

I don't think OP has said they are angry at the school as such, they're not slating teachers or moaning pointlessly, they're understandably concerned (and rightly so) about how it affects work. I am coming from the same viewpoint, I know it's not the staff to blame, and I'm sure none of the governing body have made this choice lightly. But it's worrying and has massive implications. I've been there in schools, I know the cuts and ridiculous working conditions, but I'm still worried about how to make this new timetable work with childcare, job and finances.

The people here saying about parents 'whining' and we should start some kind of political campaign etc - is it not reasonable to be ask questions about what is, for most schools in my area anyway, something which is very far off being the norm? I certainly didn't vote for a government that priorities their BS over education, NHS and everything else that's being neglected, obvs can't speak for the OP, but to somehow blame us for being in a difficult school situation and implying we previously gave no shits is bonkers.