Ofsted's new framework - behaviour

[disneyatemydaughter]

Ofsted have recently shifted focus - behaviour will be a new category in inspection: "The other major change involves looking at behaviour and pupil attitudes in a single category, signalling a more critical view to how schools deal with classroom behaviour," www.theguardian.com/education/2018/oct/11/ofsted-to-ditch-using-exam-results-as-mark-of-success-amanda-spielman. Amanda Spielman favours a “tough stance on behaviour” www.tes.com/news/writing-lines-and-mobile-bans-ofsted-chiefs-behaviour-blitz.

Surely this approach would be harmful in primary schools - getting "tough" on young children who are not cooperating surely will only make them less engaged and more miserable. How does tough discipline benefit them, or their more cooperative peers?

And why should we listen to John Dewey? From the sodding 30s? If you want a trad v prog debate then there are far more up-to-date people you could be quoting.

disneyatemydaughter

That's a single expert. However influential his view, it isn't going to convince the thousands of teachers leaving the profession because - at least in my view - the adoption of his view by schools has led to utter chaos, disrespect and low level disruption as the standard experience in British schools.

Spielman is moving away from that view because of the simple fact that it doesn't work, at least not with enough consistency to protect the educational experiences of the well-behaved majority, in cases where the poor behaviour does not stem from poorly planned lessons but from the desire to disrupt.

My personal view is that engaging students in the learning can be a way of maintaining good behaviour, and failing to engage them regularly is a recipe for bad, but no amount of trying to make learning engaging will teach children to behave all the time. And when poor behaviour does not lead to sanctions, it is repeated because students know they do not have to attempt to engage themselves; they can just say "I'm bored" and it is automatically the teacher's fault.

Good point, Noble. A single expert writing nearly a century ago.

I wonder what John Dewey’s opinion is on mobile phones in schools. Or, y’know, the moon landings.

Good behaviour should flow naturally from the work rather than be a focus.

So how are you supposed to make kids do the boring bits as well as the fun bits then?

And let's not forget, Dewey was writing within a context in which severe punishment was the norm, and where there was a very strong emphasis on teaching knowledge over skills. Many of his ideas have, rightly, been implemented, so that we no longer use corporal punishment, we do actively try to engage students in learning, we do listen to the student voice, we don't position students as "empty vessels" needing to be filled with facts etc.

But there is such a thing as swinging too far in the opposite direction.

I agree things have swung too far the other way. I'm not a teacher but dh and i used to watch those "Educating X" programmes in horror at the way some kids spoke to teachers now. Kids just did not speak to teachers like that in our schools in the 70s/80s (he was in another country)

I volunteered in an infant school for two years 2011-13 two days a week. I was a dad of 3 grown up boys.
I want to present an overview if i may.
Reading out loud was either banned or limited, it helps reading but it also helps speech, better vocabulary helps you to understand the teacher. There's probably millions who don't learn from reading.

I went on a parenting course but they didn't talk about fun.
I witnessed teachers shouting, screaming, belittling and humiliating.
My mum and dad beat me, called me thick, idiot, shouted, screamed etc. School also canned me, hit, shouted, screamed etc.
So many disadvantaged kids were taught that this is discipline but it's not, it's bullying.

I did bully type parenting (copied from school) and my wife did blind love, we were both wrong on discipline but it was no good going to school and asking the head because she bullied the teachers and the teachers bullied the children.
I left school at 15 with a reading age of a 6 year old, reading out loud at 38 helped my temper disappeared. (glue ear/deafness misdiagnosed)
I helped in the school at 56, had fun, made the kids laugh but when i frowned they knew to behave or that's it I'm off to another table.
It's impossible for teachers to do it all but they misled on reading and discipline so I guess just build bigger referral units.
One more thing.....when school says it is at the heart of the community, nothing could be further from the truth.
Oh sorry something else.....i did learn from some teachers, keep calm, be consistent, laugh and they must stand firm when dealing with a head that bully's.

The idea that if a child is poorly behaved it must be because the lesson isn’t engaging or an issue with the teacher is insidious and wrong.

It leads to low-level disruption not being dealt with, stress for teachers and increasing numbers leaving the teaching profession.*

I completely disagree. Of course there are naughty children but those aside, many highly intelligent children get bored witless because they have to wait ages for the rest of the class to 'get it' and are forced to sit still and listen to boring explanations until the other 20 children in the class have understood the topic .

Low-level disruption absolutely should be dealt with but not only by disciplining children. Lessons should be pitched so that those most able, middle of the class and at the lower ends all have made progress by the end of the lesson. Smart ad flexible streaming helps with this. Detention less so. Much reduced screen time at home also helps.

sevens7

why do you think school are not at the heart of communities?

Some schools have created a us and them, them being more articulate, more intelligent so they must be right and some of us parents are wrong. When reading out loud was banned/limited it created millions of dependent learners (dependent on mummy and the teacher to teach everything) School didn't want us to come in and find out too much, it would soil things.
I found out the truth but i don't want to whack teachers, there's no point. (what's done is done)
We could improve relationships, when people trust each other we learn more. The truth is discipline is a part of love, I only learnt that at 56, just in time to be a good grandparent.
Lots of parents are getting it wrong because they aren't mixing enough. I did seminars in school using pictures (it was easier for me to explain) rather than parents needing pictures to understand.
Lots of parents have poor English so pictures might help.
I'm working on pictures to explain discipline, hoping to put it on youtube. It will start with a smile, i remember being hit by my dad when i wouldn't read out loud. It will say play with them and become a child yourself, hide discipline in play, laugh, joke develop relationship.
Lots of fathers don't know that rules without relationship equals rebellion.
The joy i got from playing with 4 year olds in the nursery was incredible. My frown said 10 times more because i laughed and smiled so much.

One last thing.........failure and crime is a job for someone, the middle classes don't want it fixed.

When reading out loud was either banned or limited it meant millions failed, government knew about this but it was difficult to separate this failure from poor teaching so they created loads of paperwork to find out. School staff were squeezed so much that they are now finally talking to parents. It's a shame schools had to be forced into it but there you are.

My focus is on.......limiting tv and computer, both devices limit talking and being sociable......Telling parents what discipline is (especially fathers).....making parents more aware of the importance of talking more to their kids 0-3 years old....put mobiles down.....take out dummy........play more....dads to cuddle more etc etc

Sorry to sound like a dreamer

"Reading out loud was either banned or limited" are you talking about a particular school? This was never a policy in most schools.

sevens What are you talking about? I've been a teacher for over 30 years and reading aloud has never been banned.
With what authority are you creating this training manual of pictures to tell schools how to teach properly.

Oh just a few things led me to believe this.........
I was a parent governor and a volunteer for 2 years so I've talked to a lot of people in education.
It all started when I asked a teacher in the middle school why my boys (12/10/6) wouldn't read, she said, "its because you don't read in front of them."
I thought this was odd because my reading was very poor, (read very slowly, without pauses or stopping at full stops) even at the age of 38, just when i was a parent governor. An Asian parent in the playground said, "get them to read out loud."
The Beanstalk charity couldn't place a retired teacher to listen to readers. This retired teacher wrote about it in a blog on the Beanstalks website. (Beanstalk removed the blog but not before I read about it)
I went into a school to listen to readers and behind the heads back teachers got me to help in class instead.
When I did the reading out loud with children I was given fluent readers who didn't need help.
I've spoken to few teachers who know about it and some have admitted it.
My auntie (86) said, "we all learnt to read out loud together from the black board." (they didn't do phonics back then but we as a nation were much further up the league tables)

I didn't say I was against it, just that it explains a lot of things.

"when I asked a teacher in the middle school why my boys (12/10/6) wouldn't read, she said, "its because you don't read in front of them." She was talking nonsense.
"The Beanstalk charity couldn't place a retired teacher to listen to readers. This retired teacher wrote about it in a blog on the Beanstalks website. (Beanstalk removed the blog but not before I read about it)" why did they remove it? Perhaps because they discovered it wasn't true?
"My auntie (86) ...but we as a nation were much further up the league tables) " no we weren't they didn't exist!

Sorry but everything you've written is nonsense.

I have written quite a few pamphlets, I gave them to..........
Education dept
Ofsted
Tens and tens of high schools
MPs, Councillors, mayors, religious institutions etc and the only thing anyone has ever written is, it was very interesting.
Thankyou for writing back, you are the first person to respond, even if you did disagree.

I think you need to check your facts if you want to be taken seriously so many of the things you e written are untrue.

Are you a teacher?

Yes I'm a teacher

Would you be interested in reading my pamphlets?

Well, norestformrz??? I cannot wait for your answer! Be polite now! Read your answer out loud before you post!

I'm sure it would be a fascinating read

I'm going to Westminster insight for a half day meeting on the 21st Nov, headteachers and a Dr of Bath Uni will be there. Look it up, it's called, "how schools can involve parents." Should be interesting, why don't you go, i think they've still got spaces.

i could take a copy and give it to you