Thoughts on primary school choice for black children (or any other minority)

[samosamo]

Hi,

My question is specifically about African/Caribbean children, but I think some of the issues will be pertinent to other children also.

My child will start reception in 2019. We are moving from out of town so we might as well move to a location where we are likely to achieve a school that we want for our child. We want to be in a community and to have our children play with others in their school who live down the road so we will be moving for the long haul.

My child has just started to notice 'difference'. She has started talking about being black and very recently about others being brown and white. I am careful about this, careful about a language of inclusion while also instilling a sense of belonging and love and pride in herself. I haven't yet tackled how to talk about black and white, because they are such nonsense terms and kids see through nonsense so quickly.

When it comes to schools, I want her to have allies, meaning, I don't want her to be alone. While I am sure she will have white allies, just as I had as a child and do in my life, I also needed some black ones at school, and there really weren't many - sometimes any. 30 years has passed, but just in case the playground hasn't changed as much as I'd like, I want a school that has a fair few ethnic minorities and specifically black children.

One of the schools I like is in an area with quite a high proportion of ethnic minorities, but nowhere near that proportion of ethnic minorities in the school. Partly this is explained by the fact that it's a church school, but I suspect not as much, and moreso because it attracts parents who are middle class (therefore more likely to be white) who move to the area for the school.

The other school is very diverse, lots of black children and children who aren't black. I probably like it a little less because it's got less going on and I think my child's personality is a better match for the other school. But this school is still great.

Now, I'm asking parents with children who can relate either in terms of ethnicity or other minority characteristic, how is your child at school, and would you do anything differently, whatever you did? Did you even think about it? Should I even think about it. Are there other questions I should be asking?

My parents say I should think about it, just as they did, but that they supported me at home (that's very true) and this helped me (true, but sometimes things were still very hard!) and that my child will do well in any school.

I want good support for my child as she becomes more aware of 'race' and racism. There's no point in denying it, I want to meet this head on and make sure my child doesn't grow up believing silly ideas about black inferiority and I want her to be supported in being critical about what appear to be social facts which are really racist forces being exhibited in family structures, the criminal justice system, education, work, media, medicine, life in general!

I'd love your thoughts if you are having similar conundrums.

Take the best school on offer OP. Don't predict problems....take the best you can get for your child (in everything).

She may face problems no matter where you send her...that's to deal with then.

For now...every opportunity which presents itself, take it. Don't worry about how inclusive it will be. Assume that it WILL be and if it isn't, then fight her corner.

I absolutely agree with AjasLipstick. Take the best school.. I have 3 children. Ages 13, 11 and 7. They have all experienced racism/prejudice at different times in their school journey. With 13yr old it was in secondary school from a teacher. School dealt with it by making him take early retirement. My son wasn’t the only target. It him, 5he only black boy and 3 Asian boys.

My 11year old experienced it in year 5 from a group of year 6 boys. School handled it appallingly.

And my daughter sadly has been exposed to it much earlier. at age 5. I moved her school as. It was sane sch as. 11 year old and surprise surprise they handled it badly.

It happened in the second school and they were on it and took it so seriously. You can’t escape it sadly. Except you move to Africa .

But you can build your children up to recognise it and not succumb to the negative stereotype that we are bombarded with about ourselves.

Surprisingly I find. That staying in a predominantly black area reinforces this stereotype. We leave in a predominantly white area and to be honest things are not as bad as you may think.

Just start to prepare your child for the world. 99.9% of our (my husband and I) friends are successful black people. My siblings and my in laws are all professsionals from doctors to IT specialist. So my children already have that positive image. No divorces as well. They see their grandparents and see the interactions between us and know respect is paramount.
You are on the right track with your thinking,, especially with this statement
*
I want good support for my child as she becomes more aware of 'race' and racism. There's no point in denying it, I want to meet this head on and make sure my child doesn't grow up believing silly ideas about black inferiority and I want her to be supported in being critical about what appear to be social facts which are really racist forces being exhibited in family structures, the criminal justice system, education, work, media, medicine, life in general!*

Agree with others. My ds(mixed race) goes to school with mostly white children with only a small number of children who aren't. There weren't any serious issues so far.

Thank you all,

It has been eye-opening to start thinking about schooling and the environment we will be placing our child into and how we might also play a part in it. I'm not sure whether any of you have experience of that also?

Because we want to move now anyway we have been lucky enough to choose almost anywhere, and I've seen some stellar primary schools, some that are easily in the top ten of London and among the best in the country with majority black / ethnic minority pupil populations, so that has been heartening. It's almost as though you can feel the tide changing and momentum building.

When I talk about racism I do mean overt racism, but also that crappy stuff like not being picked for a main role in the school play because you are not blonde-cute, that kind of stuff I saw so much as a child. Or being chosen for games last, or to be partner last. Or my daughter really wanting to look like the most popular girl who is white and nothing like her. There is no telling how my child will get on for reasons other than her ethnicity, but I really want to avoid that being about her skin colour as much as possible. i'd love to think the world has moved on, but sadly your experiences show they have not so much.

Thank you again for your responses, they really help.

The way to look at it is people will always prefer their own. We tell our children to strive to be the best they can be. All three are excelling academically and in sports as well.
If you are good no one will deny you what is yours as your excellence also benefits them. Sons are always chosen to show staff round school as they are confident and well mannered, they are both in the A team and top maths group. Same with my daughter. I am fortunate that they find school really easy and have outgoing personalities.

But yes sometimes they are overlooked for certain things e.g. school plays. but I cannot say it is race related as I know white children who are equally excellent but overlooked too.

Just keep building your daughter up. I went for an interview a few weeks ago for a professional role. The only black candidate, and I got the job. Only 1 position advertised. If you are brilliant, people will not notice your colour.

It is hard because does it mean if my children were not academic and sporty then they are doomed? I don’t know the answer to that but I have just worked with what I have been given and so far the good experiences out weigh the bad.

Go for the best school OP.

I have a year 2 six year old DD in a predominately white area. She has been the only black African girl in her year group since nursery. Very few mixed race children. So far so good, although her reception teacher tried to put her in a box (stereotyping) but we had to counter this at home through positive reinforcements.

Nneoma has said it so well in her comment. It's down to a stable home environment, parental engagement with school from both mum and dad, good behaviour and manners taught from an early age (at the end of year 1, her teacher wrote in the annual report that DD was an excellent role model). I also read books and watch videos with her that build her up as a black person to believe that she can do anything. The book Amazing Grace by Mary Hoffman is one we read quite often. There is a video on sesame street about loving your hair and being able to become anything (professionally) that I usually watch with her.

Best wishes.

Well said blessed. Girls socialise differently to boys which is probably why my daughter experienced racist comments about her looks much earlier than her brothers. At one point in year 1 she came home saying I hate my face and hair.

I knew immediately what was happened and bought the amazing grace book and other books about identity. Husband bombarded her with photos of extended families abroad and now at 7 she loves her hair. Wants to take part in choosing her hairstyles.

It is a continuous journey and it is easy to give in to the system as some of the messages out there are subtle. Also screen their tv viewing. I do this in particular with my 13 yr old. There so many tv shows that partner black men with white women. No good representation of black families.

His best show now is flash with a black female lead and he is hooked on death in paradise too with black female leads.

Thank you All,

These are good protective strategies, thanks.

We don't have Amazing Grace,strangely, but we have quite literally hundreds of books and very few do not feature black children, if any. We've been mindful of that. We visit the Caribbean and Africa and she's learning an African language. We monitor tv, but not as well as we should with regards to representation avowedly. Now she's voicing her observations I most definitely will.

About coming home and wanting to be Tabitha or Amy, will that happen if she goes to a nearly all-ethnic minority school? I do wonder. It's so absurd to have to think this way it almost sounds like a silly question. There is one school in west london where almost no children are white and it's one of the best state primaries in the country. PM me if you want a name.

I'm going full force with this.

Great thing is that when she mentioned being black the other day she said 'i'm black,and that's lovely'.

'I'm Black and thats lovely' is really cute! We were the minority flip - only (passable) white brit kid who spoke only English/English as a first language.

He didn't get picked, was left out of some things... This is the usual kid stuff and it would have been easy to assume it was to do with him looking white or actually being otherwise. We chose to take things as they came - any dumb comment or name was dealt with quickly. Kids will always come home and want hair like x or skin like y. DS hates his curly hair now (I want it floppy like Adam!) - but still cackles as how peely wally I am.

I have family who was bullied at school - but they even say that everyone was a target at some point by some group of kids or other. DS had a little bit of hassle about his full name when he went to big school by a snotty kid who was himself an ethnic minority - with a very funny/slight rude name in English. I know it's childish - and I would never point it out in real life - but I was a bit aghast that he would try to twist another kids name into something sinister when he was a bit of a sitting duck himself.

Kids eh?

About coming home and wanting to be Tabitha or Amy, will that happen if she goes to a nearly all-ethnic minority school? I do wonder. It's so absurd to have to think this way it almost sounds like a silly question. There is one school in west london where almost no children are white and it's one of the best state primaries in the country. PM me if you want a name.

Yes She may come home and want to be x,y or z. That is peer pressure. Going to an all black school in a predominantly white society also has its issues. My question will be why is it predominantly ethnic minority in a white country?

No one can say for sure if her experience will be good or bad. If it is a good school then definitely consider it and do the work at home so she doesn’t pick up some strange behaviours. I find in big clusters of ethnic minorities other problems can also occur like colourism etc just build your daughter up. There isn’t an easy answer.

But I highly recommend screening tv. That is the biggest way people’s minds are reached.

As said by Nneoma "I find in big clusters of ethnic minorities other problems can also occur ". There is some truth in this.

Some minority ethnic groups I have interacted with tend to accept and settle for what the white majority has defined for them, such that it starts to limit ambitions. Things such as "forget it you can't work for that organization or you can't get that job, just settle for this because we know these things so we are speaking from experience" -such thinking.

Since OP says that the particular school in West London is one of the best in the country, such thinking may not exist there.

Hi all,

The school in West London. I think faculty are great and there just aren't many white families in the now, v small, catchment area. It's around 0.15 miles. Children make exceptional progress in the school. Its startling. It is no good for us because of lack of after school provision. I had a bad experience of child minders as a child and just don't want that for mine. If she had a bad experience I really wouldn't forgive myself. I just love it that the school exists.

Your warnings re group think are duly heeded.

Lots to think about.

Hi OP, thanks for this thread. As an expectant mother of a black, African child you have raised all the concerns that I have for my future child. My husband and I are both professionals and have decided to privately educate our children. So with that, we know that we will have to do a lot of "at home" work preparing our child for the realities of life etc. With that being said, all of us as parents have the duty and responsibility to instill cultural and identity pride in our children from day 1. Daily affirmations and emphasis on the building the child's self-esteem, fostering an open line of communication where topics such as racism, sexism and discrimination can be discussed . My baby isn't here yet so all this is said in "principle", but I strongly feel that positive reinforcement through books, family circle and controlled/filtered media as Nneoma mentioned goes a long way. I for one intend to teach my child the beauty of our Nigerian-Igbo heritage so that it's a source of pride. When she goes to school she can share this with her classmates and also learn about their backgrounds.

With the point on large clusters of ethnic minorities in a school- I agree with Nneoma that this presents different challenges. Colorism (skin tone and hair texture/"quality")is indeed an issue (I experienced this myself at a local state comp in East London).

To add/ clarify* because we have chosen to privately educate our children we know that (based on the particular schools we're looking at) there will be few black schoolmates. This isn't something I fear or am anxious about. I think difference should be celebrated, and I will try my best to teach my child that "different" doesn't mean better or worse :)

School is an important agent of socialization, but equally so is family and home environment. I think as long as your daughter can honestly express her concerns to you (mummy and daddy) about incidents at school and they're dealt with effectively then it will be fine.

I proabably should not be on the thread as I am white, but I would go for the better more middle class school even if there are fewer non white children in the class. My (white) sons were at a majority non white fee paying school by the way (London) and that obviously had a lot of Asian but also black and mixed race children in it, whose parents were paying school fees at 11+.

That is obviously not an option for many families as it is expensive to fund school fees but I do think when you get to university and recruitment stage it is often class not colour that can determine life changes in the UK (compared with the USA) so going for the middle class state primary or when funds allow fee payingn school can be the better choice.

Clearly I have no experience of being black though so those are just my random thoughts.

Mine are Asian and in a school where 1 in 30 is an ethnic minority including black. We go to a very middle class church school and have never once encountered racism in the school playground. If anything we experience more racism outside the school than it. Most of the parents are very educated, middle class and world travelled including holidays in Africa and Asia. Yes it will not be off the beaten path but there is a minium of tolerance if they have the desire to spend their money on overseas holidays.

Anyway point being, I really think schools can only do so much. Much of the cultural appreciation and celebrations are from home and stays at home quite frankly with the the odd invitation to schools 'show and tell' day.

What's more important that my kids become resilient and they build rapport of all kinds including LGBT, trans, all races, all colours.

Seriously won't be an issue unless you make it one. I mean this In the kindest way possible Hope this helps.

Btw having been educated at a predominantly black/ethnic school in Deptford back in the 80s, growing up on the 15tg floor of a tower block, there were huge amount of racism within the black and Asian communities and intolerance to anyone different. Dare I say it black on black racism and the Chinese were very racist. I don't know that things have changed. But just saying.

I say pick the very best school for your child that you can engineer. Most of my black peers who have done well for themselves have exclusively gone for private or grammar schools. The complete opposite of the school environment they went to!

Chi agree with ebony mama (I am of similar heritage), Xenia and CookieDoughKid. I didn’t want to mention it earlier but if you can afford it then private school is the way to go especially for secondary. My boys are at a fee paying school, daughter too, although I had to change school for her as her brothers school wasn’t a right fit.
People don’t like to admit it but your work as a black African mum is far more easier if your children are in an environment were the value system closely resembles yours.
Of course most of the work of instilling that value comes from home, but we don’t exist in a vacuum. Make sure they know who they are. Do not completely integrate so that they lose sight of who they are. No matter how colour blind the institutions in the uk say they are, people always choose who they identify with.

I agree...

Agree with posters previously and Nneoma who mentioned values. I've you value high aspirations, high academics, tolerance, good class behaviour, great teaching, great extra curricular...find the best school that fits that.

"Do not completely integrate so that they lose sight of who they are."

This is interesting, and reminds me of Trevor Phillips all those years ago, when he also made a very similar point. I think he used the phrase "cultural protection." He suggested that if ethnic minority groups rush too quickly to integrate and lose any sense of cultural distinctiveness, they can lose things that can help them protect themselves against prejudice from the majority group.

Thank you!

All of your posts are helpful and informative.

We have just decided on the school that we are going for, and that was made partly with your help, so thanks.

It's so interesting, the way black parents think about state / private / home schooling. As well as wanting to seek out opportunities, each of us has a defensive strategy to some degree, we know things are going to be that much harder for our children, and that has informed our choices. I do believe my children will face racism, I expect much of it will be so under the radar it will be near undetectable, and I'm sure I won't learn of much of it until they are older, adults even, and then maybe I will still be none the wiser. I think that is the only issue on which I depart with some of the posters on this forum - i honestly don't believe my children will face no racism. But when they do, as one us said, I plan to be there to fight their corner.

Thanks so much!

Going against the grain but I was in a similar predicament two years ago and went for the more diverse school. Also decided against private education on diversity grounds.

Oh really! I really want to hear more.

How is it working out?

My partner and I are not considering private education for primary for our daughters either, on those grounds and others. Honestly, if I had a son I might feel differently, mostly because when you pay you can demand results as a parent and a consumer, and you are covered by those laws. Black boys can be so extremely discriminated against at school, I think it could be worth it?

Hi, are you against private secondary also?