Thoughts on primary school choice for black children (or any other minority)

[samosamo]

Hi,

My question is specifically about African/Caribbean children, but I think some of the issues will be pertinent to other children also.

My child will start reception in 2019. We are moving from out of town so we might as well move to a location where we are likely to achieve a school that we want for our child. We want to be in a community and to have our children play with others in their school who live down the road so we will be moving for the long haul.

My child has just started to notice 'difference'. She has started talking about being black and very recently about others being brown and white. I am careful about this, careful about a language of inclusion while also instilling a sense of belonging and love and pride in herself. I haven't yet tackled how to talk about black and white, because they are such nonsense terms and kids see through nonsense so quickly.

When it comes to schools, I want her to have allies, meaning, I don't want her to be alone. While I am sure she will have white allies, just as I had as a child and do in my life, I also needed some black ones at school, and there really weren't many - sometimes any. 30 years has passed, but just in case the playground hasn't changed as much as I'd like, I want a school that has a fair few ethnic minorities and specifically black children.

One of the schools I like is in an area with quite a high proportion of ethnic minorities, but nowhere near that proportion of ethnic minorities in the school. Partly this is explained by the fact that it's a church school, but I suspect not as much, and moreso because it attracts parents who are middle class (therefore more likely to be white) who move to the area for the school.

The other school is very diverse, lots of black children and children who aren't black. I probably like it a little less because it's got less going on and I think my child's personality is a better match for the other school. But this school is still great.

Now, I'm asking parents with children who can relate either in terms of ethnicity or other minority characteristic, how is your child at school, and would you do anything differently, whatever you did? Did you even think about it? Should I even think about it. Are there other questions I should be asking?

My parents say I should think about it, just as they did, but that they supported me at home (that's very true) and this helped me (true, but sometimes things were still very hard!) and that my child will do well in any school.

I want good support for my child as she becomes more aware of 'race' and racism. There's no point in denying it, I want to meet this head on and make sure my child doesn't grow up believing silly ideas about black inferiority and I want her to be supported in being critical about what appear to be social facts which are really racist forces being exhibited in family structures, the criminal justice system, education, work, media, medicine, life in general!

I'd love your thoughts if you are having similar conundrums.

Interesting thread

I'm African but sadly can't speak any of our home languages with any fluidity. My parents spoke only English at home.

In the local schools the majority of children speak English as a second language - do any teachers know of this delays the development of children who only speak English at home? Just wondering if teachers have to spend more time teaching non English speakers to the detriment of children who speak English when they get to school?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for schools in west London? I'm torn between religious schools and state schools

Dear All,

Thank you, I appreciate all responses.

The deadline is this coming Tuesday so no fear. I think we are going to go with the school that is more diverse. It's in the top x of primaries in the country, the children are impressive, there are young black boys 10 years old walking home with their peers talking about Tolkien. It's almost an educational idyll for a parent like myself who is very fearful of racism having faced so much across my 30-odd years lifespan. The other school is not 'better' say, academically, there is little in it, it is very much that the other school has better wrap around care so potentially little impact to my career (and money), and it also has more clubs so my little one would be able to taste many more activities and hopefully find a talent in one or more which is great for confidence and important in life overall I think. The school we are going for has fewer activities, and that is because it has less money (less able to rely on middle class parents to bump up funds that the government has withdrawn, which is always a worry with any state school - some just can't continue to offer great education and that is totally beyond their control).

It has been interesting to have so many responses from white British parents. It's been valuable to hear your thoughts. In my opinion discrimination against black people, young people and children is so severe in this country in school work, healthcare and employment that your experiences of being a minority in a school are rendered nearly irrelevant - but not totally. It is has been eye-opening to hear about your experiences of your children being racialised. I totally get it that usually they are just thought of as children and not 'white children' and it can be strange when you realise that switch is happening - welcome to our boat. Wish it were not that way for any of us. sigh

Any more black parenting advice would be welcome and received with thanks.

SS

Will pm you

Hi All,

Just to share my ultimate thoughts now that submission day is over because I'd really appreciate that if I were following this thread.

As a recap we were considering:

A church school, with excellent academic results, lots of after school clubs that would take the pressure off our weekends (!) and also allow our child to stay at school until 5-ish so I could continue to work 9-5 hours easily. I liked the 'all-rounder' principle behind that, I also believe that given exposure to lots of different activities our kids would find 'something' they had at least a relative talent in and i know this is great for confidence and as a teenage pastime when other worrying exploratory behaviour can take over let's say!

The other was a non-faith school that is certainly second to none for many many miles around in terms of academics and surprisingly to me on embarking upon my search, probably around 90% ethnic minority and majority free school meals. I loved that the teachers could achieve so much with children who are often left behind at other schools, I liked the belief they had in the children, their own skills, and how ingenious much of their work and strategy must be. I also found the head inspiring even to me as an adult listening to him talking to the children, it put a fire in my belly. BUT far fewer activities (lack of mc parents to fundraise heavily from). The black issue is very important to us as parents, we have experienced a lot of racism both at school in the 90s and sadly in our professional careers.

We chose the latter school for the following reasons and after much angst.

1. Spoke to black parents at school gate of both. At non-faith school the parent was incredibly effusive. Detailed booster sessions in half-term for students falling behind, aspirational beliefs for the children. I heard children walking home and speaking to each other - was a sight to behold. Would be proud for my 10 year old (black) son to be having conversations about English lit in that way. So articulate and impression, absolutely couldn't be further from ridiculous stereotypes. Parents said no racism or discrimination identified at all (would be hard given sheer number of BAME pupils). Spoke to teachers and they have plans to increase after school provision and diversity of activities (though not in place yet). Can see online that there is NO DIFFERENCE in attainment of disadvantaged children (LAC and free school meals) than other children (makes sense as they are the majority). I felt very good about that. I want my kids to learn that everyone is smart despite background, everyone has potential. Very important to me because it's true, and what a testament to the school if most children don't speak English on entry and money is hard to come by at home and they are amongst the highest achievers in the country? Amazing. Heartening.

Spoke to parent at gate of faith school. Very different. Yes lots of activities, private schools would salivate, also subsidised trips to Europe in two school years and every child attends. Enviable after school provision, a real dream. However, experience of black parents so-so. Recently many have felt sidelined, raised it with the school but still not happy. Catchment area has shrunk recently to the exclusion of a nearby estate and the feeling that the school is happy to now have a greater number of monied mc parents. On that score, a number of children leave at private school entry points (giving me the impression that those parents regard the school as second best, and I can't be sure how that feeds into behaviour). Also that the school LOVES high achievers and this parent experienced all of this glory happily. However another child performed far more averagely at KS1 and parent felt child was left behind. She had to work hard to focus the school on her child again. This was borne out in results on the DoE website. Progress scores for middle achievers notably different for high achievers and I was concerned about that.

That swung it for me. I considered this question - taken to logical conclusions what would make me regret my choice so much that I might consider wanting to move my kids? It is definitely feeling potential discrimination as a black parent and having a child who is not a high flier being overlooked. I'd worry about my child at school in that environment whereas I can make sacrifice as a parent (so much of a parenting seems to be that) negotiate hours at work, maybe part time for a while and take my kids to those after school activities. I wouldn't swap school because of after school clubs.

Thanks for all of your responses!

SS

Hello OP.

I have been following this thread with interest and just wanted to know if your child got a place at your preferred choice?

This thread resonated with me, as we had to take similar thoughts into consideration when it came to submitting our primary school application for our daughter a couple of years ago. I went to a poor performing school in east London where there were quite a lot of issues (had bad experiences with colourism throughout my time at secondary school) whilst my husband (who's white) went to one of the best catholic schools in the country. Myself and my husband were very conscious that we didn't want our children to experience anything close to what I did and knew we wanted them to attend a school that was diverse (husband recalls there only being 5 kids in his entire school who weren't white). We found such a school which feeds into an excellent secondary school but it had a random allocation policy that was not determined by catchment areas or distances. Fortunately she got a place and is very happy at the school.

Am keeping fingers crossed that my son will get a place at the same school in a couple of years via sibling priority criteria.

If anyone else is reading this and has a similar decision to make...like the OP, I also chose the more diverse school. I think children need to feel totally comfortable in order to be happy and tothrive; although we can’t predict which school environment will definitely allow this, we can predict riskier environments (eg minority ethnic group) and this needs to considered along with other factors perinient to choosing a school

Hi,

@jennymac31, thanks for asking, yes we were awarded the place that we wanted. Sorry for the late response, this didn't show up on my email notifications. Your mention of your partner being white reminds me that it's not only black children who could benefit from parents who are conscious of the ethnic (and other) diversity at school. For us it is quite central. How has your experience been so far and do you feel you made the right decision?

@Overthinker33, agreed!

I've got a while, but I think the conundrum is only magnified for secondary school....

Despite being white the school we were allocated initially would have put our kids in the "only kids in the school scenario" which made me very uncomfortable - I did visit and my decision was confirmed by kids not speaking English in the classroom we were shown.

But school quality does matter, and skin colour and culture are not the same thing plus kids today tend to be quite colourblind. I think there's a balance, even at 80% I may have considered the aforementioned school, it was the 99% that I could not deal with, especially as they are practicing Christians and the school had Hindu oriented assemblies

Ps my friends dd is the only African kid in a white catholic school (mostly Brits with a splattering of Poles) and was Mary in the nativity play!

Hi OP

Glad to hear that your child was awarded a place at your preferred school. You probably mentioned it in a previous post but are you based in London/South East?

We're in the South West and are happy with our DD's school. Definitely don't regret putting it down as our first choice.

I was relieved that our DD was offered a place at the school, as I felt that she would benefit from what it had to offer (strong emphasis on music and languages). I remember seeing a diverse range of families when I attended one of the open days and the school remains just as diverse.

Just keeping fingers crossed that DS gets a place at the same school in a couple of years then I'll have the issue of secondary school applications to worry about!